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  1. #11
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by kestegs View Post
    What is a reasonable DPS to shoot for?... What is a reasonable starting point to be able to handle act 3?
    Answered in previous reply which you probably missed due to timing.
    Quote Originally Posted by kestegs View Post
    Armor/AR?
    At an absolute minimum, you want enough to allow you to Gloom through Reflects Damage, which means at least 4x EHP multiplier from armor and all-res combined. 3150/315 would work; I have 3635/295 and that works too. If you have Gloom up and you're still taking damage from Reflects, you need more. I think that's still very glass cannon compared to pretty much everything else out there. Also note that Reflects Damage + Health Link on blue elites is possibly bugged, it seems you don't get leech credit for the off-target damage while still getting Reflects penalty for it, and this particular combination is likely to slow you down unless you have some trash mobs to leech back up on, alternating your shots.

    Other than that, you pretty much only need enough EHP not to get one-shot. Gloom + high DPS + Multishot + multiple targets = instantly refill your health globe from 10% to 100%, with a great deal of control over how and when (instant speed damage). The catch is you need to be dealing damage (usually involves standing still), but you can't be overwhelmed or take certain types of hits, such as succubi balls or stuff that sends you into a hit recovery animation. Trail of Cinders and Sentry are both really good here, allowing simultaneous maneuver + damage; it's not just style points, Draba. Just to give you an idea, I'm barely over 200k EHP, although I'll admit that's a bit on the frail side.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draba View Post
    You don't need 60+ discipline to pull this one off
    But you definitely want it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draba View Post
    Also, being tanky is a great aid as around 600 physical resist 4-4.5K armor and 40K hp you no longer need gloom to kill 95% of reflect packs.
    Blasphemy. Here are 6 better ideas:
    1) Get more Discipline on gear so you can Gloom anyway.
    2) When previous Gloom is up, Trail of Cinders into elite pack half-way through battle to collect globes, gaining discipline. Simultaneous damage + Gloom fuel (at 8 cost instead of 14) + hatred refill.
    3) Use affix slots to get more MF/GF, unless you're maxed out.
    4) Use affix slots to get more DPS.
    5) Use affix slots to get more pickup radius, use increased pickup radius to get more health globes mid-battle for Gloom fuel.
    6) If you did Step 4 already, increase your tankiness, but instead of not Glooming, increase MP level, getting +25 MF/GF without cap, then still Gloom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draba View Post
    Physical damage weapons are the best by far
    They have the best min damage rolls and get full bonuses from +%elemental damage.
    True story. Probably should have mentioned it. Part of the reason I didn't mention Manticore even once; 1os is worse than a decent rare, and 2os is probably still not best-in-slot (although a good one is still very, very good).
    Quote Originally Posted by Draba View Post
    As a bonus they can be used with things like +cold legacy puzzles and suppresssion fire/unruned rain of vengeance to permaslow the whole screen. I was farming with puzzle/spray of teeth/suppression/archery/cull the weak/steady aim for quite a while when my dps was too low and I needed to constantly kite.
    Blasphemy. All things that aren't elites should be one-shot, and chilling things you one-shot is a waste of time. If you like chilled elites, grab a scoundrel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draba View Post
    Multishot works almost as well with a bow
    Even using a crossbow, you won't kill whings like heralds and blood clans without crits in 1 shot. A crit is a death with either weapons. Just get a physical bow with good min damage roll( 550+ ) and look for jewelry with 50+ average damage that shows something like 25-35 dam. This means it has a min-max and a min damage roll, display for double min damage rolls is bugged. Some time ago I got a nice 8x dex/+66 min damage/cd/cc ring for 15m, I still use it as it handily outperforms anything under 150m. Since mainstat/average dam/cc is a cheap combo bows can be pretty easily brought up to almost crossbow levels.
    Yes, you could get some sweet min-damage rings to make a bow work. Or, you could just skip that, get a crossbow, and put your mods in better places.

    For all further inquiries, here is the mapping of DH skills to weapons:
    2h Crossbow = Spam Multishot, forsake all other attacks except DOTs like Sentry
    Bow = Spam Elemental Arrow, forsake all other attacks except DOTs like Rain of Arrows
    Hand Crossbow = Spam Hungering Arrow, maybe toss something in to actually spend some hatred
    If you are not spamming one of these three skills, you are wrong. If you are spamming the wrong skill for your weapon, you are wrong. If you aren't using a 2h crossbow... you might actually not be wrong. I have a preference for Multishot, but I have nothing against bow-wielding Ball Lightning users. At least they're doing it right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draba View Post
    Also, forget follower dps :( They can't kill a fluffy little rabbit even when they are doing their best, so might as well could just grab the templar for 30% mf and +1 hatred/sec. The scoundrel cc is a very nice alternative, the tradeoff is 13 less mf and no hatred regen.
    The base attack of the followers is indeed horrible. However, the attacks that give a weapon damage work the same as yours and don't get the "follower penalty." If you have an enchantress with 2900 Intelligence and a 1300 damage weapon (no Maximus needed), her Forceful Push deals 39k damage (10s cooldown) and her Erosion is 112k over 5 seconds (15s cooldown). With those two attacks alone, she's adding 11k DPS plus 5% of your DPS before you even factor in the APS increase; add in her base attack and it's probably closer to 17 or 18k + 5%. The swingy nature of it is good too; she might not be spamming Erosions, but when she lays one down on a trash mob you can often ignore them with your attacks, confident their death is imminent. I'm not saying that she can solo and you can just sit back and watch, but it's enough DPS to notice.

  2. #12
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    i replaced preparation with shuriken cloud because i did a few rund with the suggested build and used it 0 times:P just don't need it
    shuriken cloud is very good because you dont have to waste hatred to open doors and helps when you surrounded
    Last edited by Davidus; 15-11-2012 at 13:45.

  3. #13
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    Blasphemy. Here are 6 better ideas:
    1) Get more Discipline on gear so you can Gloom anyway.
    2) When previous Gloom is up, Trail of Cinders into elite pack half-way through battle to collect globes, gaining discipline. Simultaneous damage + Gloom fuel (at 8 cost instead of 14) + hatred refill.
    3) Use affix slots to get more MF/GF, unless you're maxed out.
    4) Use affix slots to get more DPS.
    5) Use affix slots to get more pickup radius, use increased pickup radius to get more health globes mid-battle for Gloom fuel.
    6) If you did Step 4 already, increase your tankiness, but instead of not Glooming, increase MP level, getting +25 MF/GF without cap, then still Gloom.
    1. More discipline is always very good, no questions there. The thing is, on mp0 there is a practical limit to its usefulness: gloom to keep you topped and keep 100% ta up when not shooting. After reaching it more damage/ehp can be equally as good. I think the only place where 65+ disc could possibly be a top priority is the mythical pvp.
    2. Imho you hop around a bit too much Just park at half effective range and push multi, do or do not ask questions later when everything is dead, vault forward for a refill and the next pack.
    3. Again, more mf is always good. I just didn't want to gimp myself/keep 2 gearsets so dropped all on my char around paragon 60. There is not too much difference between 385 and 475 total mf, and you can get a ****load of extra damage for the same cost.
    4. At mp0 everything dies from a stern look, and some almost best in slot tank pieces are below 100m anyway( 150 dex 150 vit 70+ allres 2 socket 600+ armor pants are common and around 50, I got one that has 164dex/176vit for only 24, same for shoulders ). The 170+ mainstat 5%+ cc mempos are still a ***** to get, though :(
    5. I ran around with 2x radius trying to get the 1%er achievement, I didn't notice real improvement in killspeed between 6-7 and more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    Blasphemy. All things that aren't elites should be one-shot, and chilling things you one-shot is a waste of time. If you like chilled elites, grab a scoundrel.
    I was talking about full inferno difficulty when getting above 50k+ dps costed an arm, both legs and the soul of your firstborn Granted, snare from cold is mostly useless now as in low mps you don't need it and at high ones you always need more damage. Still could be useful later in pvp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    Yes, you could get some sweet min-damage rings to make a bow work. Or, you could just skip that, get a crossbow, and put your mods in better places.

    For all further inquiries, here is the mapping of DH skills to weapons:
    2h Crossbow = Spam Multishot, forsake all other attacks except DOTs like Sentry
    Bow = Spam Elemental Arrow, forsake all other attacks except DOTs like Rain of Arrows
    Hand Crossbow = Spam Hungering Arrow, maybe toss something in to actually spend some hatred
    If you are not spamming one of these three skills, you are wrong. If you are spamming the wrong skill for your weapon, you are wrong. If you aren't using a 2h crossbow... you might actually not be wrong. I have a preference for Multishot, but I have nothing against bow-wielding Ball Lightning users. At least they're doing it right.
    For guys with bows the average damage affixes are top priority anyway, they just happen to be a godsend for multishot, too No change in gearing priorities there.
    +I can't stress enough that while min damage is very important, a very high crit chance is much better( in really top gear you can get well above 70% for multi ). A normal hit is not always a death but a crit is, so bows can catch up a bit with their faster base speed. Even 1 hander/quiver is surprisingly good as with 70-80% crit chance it's almost guaranteed that everything is dead in 3 hits, with a ridiculous attackspeed.

    A more accurate mapping would be:
    2 socket dex manticore = Absolutely everything, best possible dh weapon
    That thing is as broken as it is butt ugly. Every other weapon is just flavor, but you thankfully can make all of them work. Multishot with bow is just as fast as ball lightning or multi with xbows, I can make the standard 65M xp/hour if I really want to do the mind numbing shortrun tango 5+ times in a row

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    The base attack of the followers is indeed horrible. However, the attacks that give a weapon damage work the same as yours and don't get the "follower penalty."
    I had no clue, that's nice to know.
    Last edited by Draba; 15-11-2012 at 14:54.

  4. #14
    D3 Monk Moderator kestegs's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Bought a bit of gear this morning and did a run. Really loved it, even though my gear was sub-optimal to say the least.

    30k HP, 4k armor, 450 AR so I think my EHP is fine. I was using a bow though, and had some major Hatred problems. Got a Xbow on bid, and I think that will help out a lot.

    I also only have about 56k DPS, and I was 2 shotting most trash, so a bit more DPS and I should be in good shape.

    I will agree that you don't need to use tumble, and I will put ToC on my next run. I think I burned prep only once in my run and that was with only 49 max discipline. I can see that ToC would be great for elites when you need to grab health globes mid fight.

  5. #15
    IncGamers Member Sentarius's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Thanks for the guide, I think this build is great just for a change of pace. I only have 30 discipline, 400 AR, 35k HP, 57K DPS, and 12% movement speed. I am missing most of the "required" items. I'm also using Hungering Arrow instead of Vault because, come on, 30 Disp. But the Hatred regen + multishot + turret still works just find.

    (My DH only uses self-found gear, and I don't really care about farming speed since I farm on a much higher plevel WW Barb. I love this guide because the DH is my second favorite character and multishot is my favorite DH skill.)

  6. #16
    IncGamers Member Drytchnath's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Would Multi/Suppression Fire used in conjunction with Prep/Punishment be viable for an incredibly poor, undergeared DH in theory? I've been playing A HotA Barb for awhile and my DH has languished on the side lines with a horribly spike-damage cluster arrow build that always died. My rare Hellion X-bow was the ****...back in 1.03, not so much now, and I've grown too reliant on Sharpshooter due to lack of crit/Dex gear.

  7. #17
    IncGamers Member scottish one's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    ive been using mulitshot for a while but as part of a build for higher mp's (3-6). the build and items i was using were great for farming in groups, especially with fast barbs. when it came to solo farming it was far too slow and inefficient

    have got rid of my manticore, got inna's belt/pants and am loving this!, i lost about 130 res all and 10k life but gained about 30k base dps,

    playing on MP0 doing the (or similar to) Alkaizer run. first 2 efforts were 11mins and about 9mil XP

    getting better with it as well as i had a very slow build before and this one is ridiculously fast

    not a very social one though :P but ive kept my more Def gear for coop and ubers

    cheers!

  8. #18
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Drytchnath View Post
    Would Multi/Suppression Fire used in conjunction with Prep/Punishment be viable for an incredibly poor, undergeared DH in theory? I've been playing A HotA Barb for awhile and my DH has languished on the side lines with a horribly spike-damage cluster arrow build that always died. My rare Hellion X-bow was the ****...back in 1.03, not so much now, and I've grown too reliant on Sharpshooter due to lack of crit/Dex gear.
    If you have a poorly geared DH - like 25-30k dps kind of DH - then you want to run a sentry build. Something like:

    LMB - Bola Shot - Thundering Ball (cc against enemies, not really for damage)
    RMB - Sentry - Spitfire Turret (your main source of dps)
    1 - Shadow Power - Gloom/Smokescreen - Lingering Fog
    2 - Caltrops - Torturous Ground
    3 - Preparation - Battle Scars
    4 - Rain of Vengeance - Stampede for more cc, or Beastly Bombs for more DPS

    Even if you have crappy dps, this will let you farm mp0 or mp1 without dying much, if at all, if you play smart. Work up to 100k dps and then switch over to a faster build. When 1.0.5 hit and my character had 30k-ish dps, this is what I did and now I am 170k dps after lots of farming and playing with this DH. It works.

    The best thing about the above build is that you don't need crit damage or crit gear. It helps to have it, but you don't need it. It works best with a faster bow that does good damage and has some dex on it.

  9. #19
    IncGamers Member Drytchnath's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticc View Post
    If you have a poorly geared DH - like 25-30k dps kind of DH - then you want to run a sentry build. Something like:

    LMB - Bola Shot - Thundering Ball (cc against enemies, not really for damage)
    RMB - Sentry - Spitfire Turret (your main source of dps)
    1 - Shadow Power - Gloom/Smokescreen - Lingering Fog
    2 - Caltrops - Torturous Ground
    3 - Preparation - Battle Scars
    4 - Rain of Vengeance - Stampede for more cc, or Beastly Bombs for more DPS

    Even if you have crappy dps, this will let you farm mp0 or mp1 without dying much, if at all, if you play smart. Work up to 100k dps and then switch over to a faster build. When 1.0.5 hit and my character had 30k-ish dps, this is what I did and now I am 170k dps after lots of farming and playing with this DH. It works.

    The best thing about the above build is that you don't need crit damage or crit gear. It helps to have it, but you don't need it. It works best with a faster bow that does good damage and has some dex on it.
    Thanks, I'll give it a try. I think without Sharpshooter I'm at 40k DPS on my DH with a whopping 10% crit chance- good to know it isn't heavily reliant on the crit stats which is a bit of a refreshing change.

  10. #20
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Drytchnath View Post
    Thanks, I'll give it a try. I think without Sharpshooter I'm at 40k DPS on my DH with a whopping 10% crit chance- good to know it isn't heavily reliant on the crit stats which is a bit of a refreshing change.
    Go with archery, perfectionist and whatever else you want. Sharpshooter is pretty crap, whether you have high crit or not. This build though - like you said - doesn't need crits anyway.

    Just search for a bow or crossbow with dex, high average damage and vit if you have the budget. You can probably get such a bow for super cheap since you don't care about sockets and crit damage right now.

    Slowly work up to gear like I have, and you won't go wrong.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/s...0/hero/6639721

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