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  1. #31
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Manticore's are not best-in-slot if they are cheap ones with junky stats. A best-in-slot item is an item that has the best possible stats to do the highest damage. It's not the name of the item. There are many items better than a bad manticore. I just wanted to point that out.

    For a manticore to be "best in slot", it has to produce damages that are higher than the other items. In order to do this, you need 1050 reported dps with 250+ dex and 2 sockets with perfect gems. Or, you need 1150-1200 dps with a less dex and 2 sockets with 2 perfect gems. Anything less, and of course there are lots of bows and rares that will be better than manticore. Obviously. Should go without saying. You get what you pay for.

    I checked out your build in your profile, and the reason you're slow with ball lightning is because you're not using tactical advantage. You need to shoot the balls and constantly studder-step or vault forward into the enemies. Don't wait for the balls to connect. Run into them and keep moving.

    Also, with your DPS, you'd be crazy to do MP3. 135k dps is NOT enough for MP3. I don't care if you're using Multishot or Ball Lightning. It's not enough. That's not a fault of the skills. That's a fault of the MP selection. You gain absolutely nothing by playing on MP3 with your gear. You shouldn't even be doing MP2. I do 70% more dps than you, and even I think MP3 is too slow.

    If you took out Steady Aim for Tactical Advantage, you'd probably do around 100k dps. That's enough for MP0 speed-farming. MP1 would even take too long.
    Last edited by mysticc; 21-11-2012 at 16:43.

  2. #32
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticc View Post
    For a manticore to be "best in slot", it has to produce damages that are higher than the other items. In order to do this, you need 1050 reported dps with 250+ dex and 2 sockets with perfect gems. Or, you need 1150-1200 dps with a less dex and 2 sockets with 2 perfect gems. Anything less, and of course there are lots of bows and rares that will be better than manticore. Obviously. Should go without saying. You get what you pay for.
    With this build in particular, 6% elemental from SoJ and 8% holy from Inna's Favor are very common, so you also need to account for the loss of black damage. Even with dex, no 10XX Manticore is going to match the damage from a good 12XX rare crossbow.

    Manti damage is about 32% to 51% poison damage; since the base black damage is nonrandom, generally speaking the more damage the Manti deals, the more of it is poison. The only two ways a Manti can increase DPS without increasing the poison-to-black ratio are:
    1) Attack speed from 10% to 11%. Small difference and doesn't help DPA.
    2) The % weapon damage mod, which would be one of the two random mods a high-end Manti receives (the other being socketed). This means that if you have two 11% attack speed mantis that both list for the same DPS and have about the same Int bonus, but one has 35% weapon damage and the other has 46%, the 46er is the better of the two.

  3. #33
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    I don't run an Soj, so the only % increase I would get would be from Inna's Favor. I found a mighty good rare crossbow the other day though, and it still couldn't beat my manticore with my current gear setup. I guess the rest of the gear matters too.

  4. #34
    D3 Monk Moderator kestegs's Avatar
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    As a reference I had a rare cbow with about 1300 dps and 160 dex /100 CD(socket)

    I bought a manticore with 190 dex and effectively 285 CD.

    The manticore took my DPS from about 100k up to 125k. However, it also increase my run times by about 10% or so on mp0. And it wasn't anything to do with hated, I still had plenty.

  5. #35
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    I find this thread very interesting. According to the wisdom in it, my farming MF DH is something my girlfriend would call a hot mess.

    My DH uses evasive fire/covering fire and ball lightning, spike trap for elites. I've got about 90k dmg, but still have a few pieces of MF gear on. I try to gradually replace it as I gain paragon levels. I was using a 13xx windforce, but a friend found a 1050 2 socket manticore so I've been using that instead.

    I don't run short loot circuits, normally I either do key runs or play through an act from start to finish. Going all the way through Act 3 including all subdungeons might take me about 2-2.5 hours and I'll net maybe 30m xp and maybe 1-2 legendaries or sets. I have a hard time actually doing it on MP0 because it's so boring. I usually set it to MP1 or MP2 depending on mood.

    I find the advice on here fairly interesting regarding skill based on weapon. I always liked multi shot and am tempted to give it a try, although I don't want to change out a bunch of gear. I really like covering fire against elites, since you hit all 3 at once.

  6. #36
    IncGamers Member Diab's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    I've actually been using a Multishot build for quite some time, before and after 1.05.

    The original suggested build was very much like the one in the OP. However I played around with it a lot and made it more to my liking, as can be seen on my DH here:
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/D.../hero/25974497

    I found that MS was not that efficient against single targets like bosses. Thus I went with guided arrow at first for single targets as well as extra hatred generation; and later switched to Bola Shot. Once Bola Shot's radius got increased with 1.05, I found myself using that more often than Multishot. Either way you play it, using a hatred generator eliminates your utter need for health globes, which are random and are thus unreliable. Thus a hatred generator is, in my opinion, more valuable for a skill slot than the Bat companion.

    Yes I have a crossbow with 1337 damage just because I can.

  7. #37
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Diab@ you need a hatred generator because you have virtually no dps. With Steady Aim and Archery you don't even break 60k. You also have high resall and phys resist, which makes your DH gear look like leftovers from a OWE monk. It might be worthwhile for me to repeat that you can't go generator-free until you get your DPA high enough that you don't run out of hatred during elite fights; until then you still need one, so Sentry is a late-game addition.

  8. #38
    IncGamers Member cheerupemokid10's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    I've been running this for questing/leveling from mid A1 inferno and I breezed through both A1 and A2 all on mp0 of course. Now A3 has been a little tougher. I upgraded some of my gear to get some more dps and MF. I'm only at around 40k dps but I'm Critting 60+% of the time at 60-70k crits. A little bit better of a weapon and i might get some higher crits. only a 12xx rare crossbow right now. Not wonderful by any means but I've done pretty well so far. Hatred is starting to become a bit of an issue now that it is taking several shots to down elite packs. I can't speed run yet, but for leveling and questing I'm doing pretty okay. When I first went together some better gear for this build I missed the discipline and hatred part and only got hatred regen so I cannot spam ToC.

    after clearing A1 through half of A3 I had gotten about 500k to go invest in auctions. But I'm looking forward to getting some more gold to get some even better upgrades. Nothing like being a poor man! No legendaries or awesome rares so far but I just upgraded my MF to 218% towards the end of A3. Maybe I'll go back and do some mp1 runs of A1 or A2 and see how that goes before delving into A3 much more.

    thanks for the guide! I've had to tweak a little because of my lack of gear so far, but its been really helpful. This build definitely works through the early parts of inferno with much less than what is listed for decent runs. Surely not the speed runs though.

  9. #39
    IncGamers Member Death_StrikeR's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Im actually using a similar build... http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/X.../hero/15988555
    Actually, I kill things with Bola Shot AND Multiple Shot.

    There are many things pointed here that i might consider,
    I realized im wasting runes/disc with my Vault-Action Slot, will most likely changed to Tumble.
    At first, i think the hatred/disc regen from health globe using Vengeance is not feasible, i might consider dropping Night Stalker for this after some test when i get home.

    Im pretty much a fragile DH, my ehp is around 100k so basically I "manually" defended myself using vault when things get tough, and make sure im 100% Gloom on, in which i can maintain with my current setup at MP0~. But white mobs basically dies after 3 bolashots+1 MS all in 2 seconds => the counter i somehow instinctively setup so that when I MS them they explode from bolas with my 2.40~ IAS, at the same time regen my Hatred.

    My Cluster Arrow-Dazzling Arrow is basically to stunlock elites and keeping them in place. So i can freely bolashot or occasional MS them (disc regen) without too much pressure in defending.

    The great thing about using a DH is how they breeze around the map, making farming with much less effort. Thanks to Vault-TA.
    With the 60 disc i have, i almost forgot until i read it from here that Tumble is the rune of choice for vault since i perpetually vaulting around the map without running my disc dry, due to MS-SF, and the Preparation worth using with a big Disc pool.

    Overall,
    MS is a fun and viable skill for a DH in lower MP levels,
    So whenever i managed to have a DH party member using it in Pub games,
    I smile..... coz he also knows what a great skill it is.

    Kudos for Deathklok for pointing that out to many.

  10. #40
    IncGamers Member Diab's Avatar
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    Re: How to Multishot - A Speedfarming DH Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    Diab@ you need a hatred generator because you have virtually no dps. With Steady Aim and Archery you don't even break 60k. You also have high resall and phys resist, which makes your DH gear look like leftovers from a OWE monk. It might be worthwhile for me to repeat that you can't go generator-free until you get your DPA high enough that you don't run out of hatred during elite fights; until then you still need one, so Sentry is a late-game addition.
    Thank you for your input.

    Actually, I never said that I needed a hatred generator. I meant that I prefer to use an active skill in order to generate extra hatred when needed, over the passive Bat Companion that your build uses. As for my dps, it's not the greatest but it works for me and my budget and allows me to take down elite packs with relative ease.

    That said, I do not farm at all, so maybe the "speedfarm" aspect of your build requires the passive rather than the active skill.

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