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  1. #41
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticc View Post
    Well, maybe I should get some depth diggers or something. I am not terribly excited about Inna's temperance - 25% effective health hit just to get a few extra % in dps seems hardly worth it to me. I don't know where else I can get some MF without sacrificing some dps. Finally at 120k dps, MP0 is very farmable and is much faster than my witch doctor. Scaling back down to 90k dps or something would make things harder I think. I guess I will just keep grinding out those paragon levels.
    I only consider one legendary absolutely mandatory for a DH, and Inna's Temperance is it. More for the movespeed than anything else, but the extra DPS is good too.

  2. #42
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    I only consider one legendary absolutely mandatory for a DH, and Inna's Temperance is it. More for the movespeed than anything else, but the extra DPS is good too.
    You can get movement speed from Lacuni Prowlers and your boots though. Extra dps is fine, but not at such a massive cost to your defenses. Do you really want to go below 550,000 effective health? You will go below 500,000 with these pants unless the rest of your gear is absolutely stellar. I don't think it's worth it at all. For most mortal beings, these pants are not good.

    And you know I'm right when you look at the top demon hunters and only the top few use Inna's. Once their hero score dives down, they settle for rares like the ones I am already wearing (dex, vit, res, armor, 2 sockets). They choose these pants for exactly the same reasons I'm stating.

  3. #43
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Unless you're spending absurd amounts, you give up tons of EHP going lacunis instead of rare bracers, too. Yes pants can roll higher vit than bracers, but the difference isn't nearly as big as you're making it out to be.

    Plus Inna two-piece is nice with the chest, since nat's chest is so terrible - unless your build really needs +disc on chest piece.

    As a DH or monk I really can't see why you wouldn't go for Inna pants. They're so good that even non-dex characters often get them.

  4. #44
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    Unless you're spending absurd amounts, you give up tons of EHP going lacunis instead of rare bracers, too. Yes pants can roll higher vit than bracers, but the difference isn't nearly as big as you're making it out to be.

    Plus Inna two-piece is nice with the chest, since nat's chest is so terrible - unless your build really needs +disc on chest piece.

    As a DH or monk I really can't see why you wouldn't go for Inna pants. They're so good that even non-dex characters often get them.
    I agree that the strongarm bracers I was using before is likely better than the lacuni's. I am just using them because I found them today, and I'm excited for getting them. But I was thinking of switching back to the strongarms too actually since my pair has AR on them. It's kind of weird that a 2-3 million gold item can be more powerful than a 60 million gold item, but that seems to be the case with the bracer slot. If we use Strongarms, we only take a 2.8k loss in dps, which isn't all that much.

    As for the differences in pants, there is a pretty significant difference. Here's what my character would look like if I replaced my 3 million gold rare pants (97 dex, 169 vit, 78 res and 2 sockets) for a pair of 7 million gold inna's pants (which has a health globe pickup as its extra modifier). Note that my rare pants are not even close to being the best you can get, but let's just roll with it for now. I'm sure you can imagine a pair of 250 dex/250 vit that would crush mine, but I think the results are interesting if we use my ****ty pants for some calculations.

    In contrast, we'll assume the highest base rolls on Inna's Temperance for ****s and giggles, and we'll include the set bonus from the belt (because that's what all the top players are doing, so that's not unreasonable). I'll put in 2x +46 Vitality Gems, since that's the same quality of gems I have in my pants now. Here's what we get:



    While I may have been slightly exaggerating when I said 25% effective health, we can see that it's 23%, or 21% if you factor in the dodge. For this massive sacrifice in EHP, you only gain some more dps. Since I do brush with death on rare occasions on MP0 (phase beast elites with bad modifiers, like fast and reflect damage and other nasty ones), I think we have to assume equipping the Inna's Temperance is going to get us killed unless we make up for this lack of EHP somehow.

    Now, we could spend 35 million to get 100 Vitality on the Inna's Temperance. This is what we get:



    Or we could spend spend 140 million to get 70 All Resistances:



    As you can see, we still sacrifice a huge amount of EHP in either case. I can tell you from personal experience that if you're farming and you're sort of locked in a non-caring, hypnotic state while playing the game, you will die with these numbers. I'll stick with a good rare or a pair of depth diggers.

    PS: I guess if we spent 1 billion on a pair with 200 vitality, the pants start to finally look like an "upgrade" rather than just a way to move numbers around:

    Last edited by mysticc; 02-11-2012 at 20:00.

  5. #45
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    But that's not the question. You want 24% runspeed, so the question is whether you pick it up on bracer slot or pant slot.

    I wasn't saying that the EHP difference between depth diggers and inna's was small. Obviously it isn't.

    What I was saying is that the EHP difference between the combination of depth diggers + lacunis verses the combination of inna's + rares/strongarms is small, assuming your lacunis aren't stupidly expensive.

  6. #46
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Also, as a thought experiment. If we spent 115 million on Inna's Chest with 75ish all resists to make up for the crappy nat's chest (and kept the strongarms), it doesn't really get us very far with the pants.

    This pic below shows what happens when we replace my Nat's Chest, Lacuni Prowlers, and my rare pants for Inna's Chest, Inna's Pants and Strongarm Bracers:



    The thing is, this assumes only a 2-piece nats at the moment. Once you add the ring in (and a good one is only 50-60 million), the nat's chest piece goes up in value and then inna's chest would be a waste for the 115 million they want for it :/

    But even without the ring, we're just swapping a small amount of defense for a small amount of offense. It's hardly worth it considering a nat's chest with 75-80 resists is like 10-13 million.

    No matter how bad Nat's Chest is (and trust me, it's the worst class chest piece - I know), it's still best in slot.
    Last edited by mysticc; 02-11-2012 at 20:25.

  7. #47
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    But that's not the question. You want 24% runspeed, so the question is whether you pick it up on bracer slot or pant slot.

    I wasn't saying that the EHP difference between depth diggers and inna's was small. Obviously it isn't.

    What I was saying is that the EHP difference between the combination of depth diggers + lacunis verses the combination of inna's + rares/strongarms is small, assuming your lacunis aren't stupidly expensive.
    Right. Picking up the bracer is by far the better choice IMO. Bracer slots are not really used for EHP gains anyway - it's more of a DPS piece. So we can equip a good rare or Depth Diggers for the pants slot since the life bonus we get from those pieces with these items is huge. If we want 24% movement speed, this seems like the lesser of two evils to me.

    Inna's Temperance is a glass cannon set of pants. But when you're farming and you just want to tank everything and not pay too much attention, I think they are very bad :/ Especially if we're talking about gold investment required to make them feasible.

  8. #48
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    When considered in the absence of the Inna two piece bonus, a good enough lacuni (particularly one with crit) definitely looks more attractive. However when you consider pairing it with Inna's chest (because really, how many good chest options are there for a DH?), however, the picture changes. You can get a lot of damage from that combination, and you can get rare bracers with 140+ dex and vit, 5%+ crit, and 70+ res all to go with - not quite as much EHP as high-vit depth diggers, but certainly quite a bit.

  9. #49
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    For about 65 million (or so), I can get a nat's ring that produces the following changes to my character. This includes lacuni's and everything else the way my character in my profile is now, excluding the rare officer sight ring:



    By getting rid of nat's chest piece, I'd lose 130 dex from the 3-piece set bonus (and thus not much reason to use nat's). Let's not forget, we also lose the 7% crit chance bonus we get from nat's boots too. The rare ring + inna's chest combination would have to come out superior (It's worth figuring out, and I suspect it won't come out superior).

    I already know the chest is 115 million, and god knows how much the ring will cost to be better than nat's with the 3-piece set bonus. I'm curious if it's worth spending 150 million for a better rare ring + inna's chest compared to just getting a good nat's ring. To be honest, if I have to spend that much, I may as well go for a crit chance/crit damage nat's ring (The screenshot above assumes 9% attack speed and 30% crit damage on the nat's ring, which is the cheaper variant).

  10. #50
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    There is a way to make Inna's Temperance work with the belt, which is easily the best combo. I can't make it work with the chest. The reason is that 7% crit chance is too good, and the 130 dex does make up for nat's short-comings.

    I'd have to purchase a new Strongarm's bracers - one with at least 60 to all resists and 9% life percentage on it. That means the one that I have is junk, and wouldn't work.

    Next, the absolute cheapest inna's that would work would be one with an armor bonus. Two radiant star amethysts would eventually have to be used in both of the sockets of the pants.

    This setup would provide the same EHP (0.31% ahead) and 8.95% more dps. The equipment change would cost around 54.5 million.

    I could probably splurge a bit and get a better Inna's pants. If I paid ~25 million for a pair of Inna's with 100 vitality, and then used only 1 Radiant Amethyst instead of 2 (and used a Radiant Star Emerald in the other pant socket), I would break even with EHP (0.92% ahead) but get 10.33% more DPS. The total for this would be 70 million.

    If I did either, I'd have to sell the Lacuni Prowlers I found earlier today to pay for it. I never would imagined one would have to spend more in a single purchase to 10.33% more dps than all of the gear on his character thus far.

    Unfortunately, neither setup leaves me thrilled because the EHP is still 479,598 when it's all said and done, and my target should be 550,000 while still maintaining higher dps. Ironically, using my strongarms with my current gear gives me that already. The Pants is what is really taking it down. The above calculations assume I was using the Lacuni's, but if I just settle for 12% movement speed, I get the target EHP already.

    Besides buying a nat's reflection though, I am totally unsure how to easily buff up the Demon Hunter now. Once you cross 120k dps, it starts getting hard. I guess there's always getting a good 14% elemental arrow Dead Man's Legacy. If it does what it says it does, it would likely be a better upgrade for way less money.
    Last edited by mysticc; 02-11-2012 at 23:11.

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