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  1. #21
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    @mysticc/Mad D: although I think mysticc is generally on the right of their little debate, I think mysticc has a few things wrong. I really should get that Multshot guide up, but I'm at work now.

    @ Vanadin: Gloom called, it said your life-on-hit amulet is trash.

  2. #22
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    @ Vanadin: Gloom called, it said your life-on-hit amulet is trash.
    I'm not arguing that Gloom is inferior to LOH. My point is that it's theoretically possible, at least for farming purposes, to get by without it. For example, I did an Act 3 run yesterday on MP2 (keyhunting ) with two other DHs. It went about 90 minutes, and I used Gloom maybe four times total—and, unlike the other DHs, I didn't die once.

    In any case, though, let me ask you this: if/when you go keyhunting at MP levels, do you still use the same setup (Bat/Hungering Arrow/Multishot)? Or do you use something else as a hatred spender?

  3. #23
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    @mysticc I see where you are coming from a little better. Though going as far as titling demon hunters as a poor farming class may be the wrong choice of words and I still disagree with some things-- I'll have to just part on this until I develop more of an opinion on the Witch Doctor.

  4. #24
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    On MP0 spamming ball lightning at trash and low HP elites, sure, I guess.

    For high MP keyfarming / ubers using loaded for bear, gloom or go home. You can't get enough LoH to counteract loaded for bear with 200k dps reflected at you.

    Honestly on MP0 you could just blow them up and pick up their health globes, so long as your EHP is reasonable. You don't even need the LoH (nice to have though).
    I generally don't pop Shadow Power much on MP0, but does happen if I just want to tank it and be gaurenteed not to die. Since I'm running Preparation and Night Stalker, I can afford to spam Vault and Shadow Power whenever I want, which I like. I don't want concern myself with resource management when farming

    I do want to add too that life on hit is not that great with a crossbow either, which I forgot to mention in my above post. That's why I mentioned life-steal on manticore (but too expensive). At the moment, I don't know how to drop Shadow Power without such a bow, and it cost a fortune for an upgrade over the manticore I'm using.

    Even so, I'm not even sure if 3% life steal would be enough. Shadow Power gives 15%, so could really solve the reflect damage problem with just 3? I am skeptical. I think Gloom has to stay.

  5. #25
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad D View Post
    @mysticc I see where you are coming from a little better. Though going as far as titling demon hunters as a poor farming class may be the wrong choice of words and I still disagree with some things-- I'll have to just part on this until I develop more of an opinion on the Witch Doctor.
    If you need 150k dps to do what the witch doctor can do at 40k or 70k dps on MP1, then yes, saying it is a poor farming class is entirely accurate, especially for people just coming to inferno.

  6. #26
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanadin View Post
    I'm not arguing that Gloom is inferior to LOH. My point is that it's theoretically possible, at least for farming purposes, to get by without it. For example, I did an Act 3 run yesterday on MP2 (keyhunting ) with two other DHs. It went about 90 minutes, and I used Gloom maybe four times total—and, unlike the other DHs, I didn't die once.

    In any case, though, let me ask you this: if/when you go keyhunting at MP levels, do you still use the same setup (Bat/Hungering Arrow/Multishot)? Or do you use something else as a hatred spender?
    Playing in Multiplayer should never be compared to farming solo. Having 2 decoys (especially those who play bad) can make it infinitely easier for you to stay alive.

    On MP2, I don't think he would run his build - and I wouldn't run my Elemental Arrow only build. That's crazy. On MP2, I'd have to either run the Loaded for Bear build, and if the burst wasn't enough to kill things fully, I'd probably have to go to a Sentry build focusing on cc's and long-sustained damage instead.

  7. #27
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanadin View Post
    In any case, though, let me ask you this: if/when you go keyhunting at MP levels, do you still use the same setup (Bat/Hungering Arrow/Multishot)? Or do you use something else as a hatred spender?
    I don't really keyhunt, but if I was to go keyhunting right now? Yes, I'd pretty much have to. My gear has 13% additional chance to crit on Multishot, and I don't have, nor really feel like committing to, a good, separate gearset.

    As mysticc guessed, if I wanted to keyhunt seriously, I wouldn't run that build. I might not run DH at all. I'm wondering if the "whirlwind DH" has anything real to it... makes me want to do some intensive testing to find out if Demolition follows the same tickrate rules as skills like Energy Twister and Whirlwind. If I couldn't make it work, I'd probably scratch DH entirely and level up another class for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticc View Post
    If you need 150k dps to do what the witch doctor can do at 40k or 70k dps on MP1, then yes, saying it is a poor farming class is entirely accurate, especially for people just coming to inferno.
    This post is just silly. No, a 40k dps WD cannot do the same damage as a 150k dps DH, at least not one with half a clue. Maybe they'd both be able to clear the content without dying, but there would be a huge killspeed difference. I get it, you really, really like Zombie Bears. But ZB is still only 236% damage per cast, and to a small area, Multishot is 165%, so ZB is at best 43% more effective (not counting area of effect at all), and don't tell me you can't spam Multishot because that's what I do all day long, or I wouldn't run crap like Hardened (that's right, I use my left-click almost exclusively on destroyable objects and choose the skill based purely on projectile travel time). Tone it down to "If you need 150k dps to do what the witch doctor can do at 100k dps" then we can have a reasonable disagreement instead of me calling you insane.

  8. #28
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    I don't really keyhunt, but if I was to go keyhunting right now? Yes, I'd pretty much have to. My gear has 13% additional chance to crit on Multishot, and I don't have, nor really feel like committing to, a good, separate gearset.

    As mysticc guessed, if I wanted to keyhunt seriously, I wouldn't run that build. I might not run DH at all. I'm wondering if the "whirlwind DH" has anything real to it... makes me want to do some intensive testing to find out if Demolition follows the same tickrate rules as skills like Energy Twister and Whirlwind. If I couldn't make it work, I'd probably scratch DH entirely and level up another class for it.

    This post is just silly. No, a 40k dps WD cannot do the same damage as a 150k dps DH, at least not one with half a clue. Maybe they'd both be able to clear the content without dying, but there would be a huge killspeed difference. I get it, you really, really like Zombie Bears. But ZB is still only 236% damage per cast, and to a small area, Multishot is 165%, so ZB is at best 43% more effective (not counting area of effect at all), and don't tell me you can't spam Multishot because that's what I do all day long, or I wouldn't run crap like Hardened (that's right, I use my left-click almost exclusively on destroyable objects and choose the skill based purely on projectile travel time). Tone it down to "If you need 150k dps to do what the witch doctor can do at 100k dps" then we can have a reasonable disagreement instead of me calling you insane.
    You're forgetting about gruesome feast and soul harvest stacks.

    Try it.

  9. #29
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    I get it, you really, really like Zombie Bears. But ZB is still only 236% damage per cast, and to a small area, Multishot is 165%, so ZB is at best 43% more effective (not counting area of effect at all)
    If you back yourself up against a wall you can spam zombie bears in a line to kill elites absurdly fast. It is easily 4-5 times as much damage as multishot.

    On MP0 this damage output doesn't really matter. The fact that DH can move around the map way faster is far more important.

    On low-mid MPs where kill speed starts to matter, ZB is great. Grave Injustice + Gruesome Feast works a treat up to ~MP4 or so, maybe a bit higher if you have really good gear. You can just spam out the bears.

    On higher MPs where sustained damage output is a factor, ZB kind of sucks, unless rain dance happens to be cooled down.

  10. #30
    IncGamers Member mysticc's Avatar
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    Re: Is the demon hunter a poor farming class?

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    If you back yourself up against a wall you can spam zombie bears in a line to kill elites absurdly fast. It is easily 4-5 times as much damage as multishot.

    On MP0 this damage output doesn't really matter. The fact that DH can move around the map way faster is far more important.

    On low-mid MPs where kill speed starts to matter, ZB is great. Grave Injustice + Gruesome Feast works a treat up to ~MP4 or so, maybe a bit higher if you have really good gear. You can just spam out the bears.

    On higher MPs where sustained damage output is a factor, ZB kind of sucks, unless rain dance happens to be cooled down.
    I definitely agree that zombie bears can run out of steam if your mana depletes. I don't suspect it will work at higher MP levels either. I tried MP3, and I was running out of mana. But for MP0/1 with just 70k-ish dps, she was just rolling over the game. I also cannot see multishot approach this kind of dps until the Demon Hunter gets absurb amounts of dps gear.

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