Diablo3 really seems a better game than Torchlight 2

[yovargas]

Really? You use a cone damage/knockback mechanic as a main attack - something a 5 year old could effectively do - and are surprised when it doesn't take you too far through the game, and/or presents problems with champs, bosses, or decent range mobs?

That's kind of the essence of balance.

Having whole sets of terrible skills is the essence of balance??

[Chaosmage]

Draculs were so much more than just lifesteal gloves. That was just good item design with the curse application, even admittedly they were so good that nothing else was even a choice at that point.

Ah yeah draculs, and then crafting. TBH I wasn't even thinking about LOD just d2c but you are right.
Another good example of an item with a property which is entirely missing in d3.

[zaphodbrx]

Shotgun outlanders have serious problems and can't be said to be balanced in any sense of the term. That said, they aren't that bad when you build them the right way and are high level ( atleast lvl 40 ). Additionally, almost any build works in casual difficulty, and that drops the same items as the other difficulties so you can always play on that if you're trying a weak build.

[Chaosmage]

Additionally, almost any build works in casual difficulty, and that drops the same items as the other difficulties so you can always play on that if you're trying a weak build.

Both things were true in D1 as well.

[FluffyTheFluffer]

Having whole sets of terrible skills is the essence of balance??

Vargas, I won't say you don't have a point.

I look forward to your mod with superior balance and imaginative skills.

[MathewPoland]

I personally like D3 a lot more.

As for the whole discussion - I don't think we'll ever reach an agreement as to which game is better. It's really just a matter of personal preference. Some people will say that D3 is better because X, while others will claim otherwise. It's just... Does it really matter all that much? Everyone is free to play what he wants and as long as he has fun, it's ok

As for Diablo 3 - there was a lot of drama about this game being terrible. While I believe that some people didn't get enough fun for the amount of money they've payed for it, I think that most of us have/had spent many hours playing and enjoying it. People are complaining because D3 is not what they've imagined it'd be or because it has some flaws, but... seriously - I can't think of any game that would ever be perfect for everyone, it's just not possible. Every game has flaws, even D2 after so many years still has some. Let's not dramatize - D3 is a good game and so is TL2. I don't regret spending my money on either of those and I sincerely believe that most people can, if they think for a second, say the exact same thing.

Will D3 become as legendary as D2? Perhaps, but it's very unlikely. What about PoE or TL2 or any other aRPG? Well, probably the same. Here's why - times have changed and "young" (new) gamers are just different, in general, then a couple of years ago. Nowadays there's a huge amount of games that more and more people can afford, thus more people tend to jump between games. At least in my country. I remember when I was a kid - getting your first PC and any game was something huge, now it's just... normal. Even though every good game will find it's hardcore, die-hard fans (as will D3 and TL2), most "young" gamers will continue to switch games. As for us... let's be honest - for most of us, Diablo franchise is connected directly with our childhood and perhaps this is the reason why we consider it to be "legendary".

Peace, people

[mr punk]

Shotgun outlanders have serious problems and can't be said to be balanced in any sense of the term. That said, they aren't that bad when you build them the right way and are high level ( atleast lvl 40 ). Additionally, almost any build works in casual difficulty, and that drops the same items as the other difficulties so you can always play on that if you're trying a weak build.

true, but despite the lack of reward for playing higher difficulties in TL2. the problem is really with those players who think they should be able to play NG+ (and beyond) Elite (or any higher difficulty and mode) the way they want to play or else the game is broken or unbalanced. which is interesting because some skill based games shut players out period with their higher difficulty levels (lol..i wonder if they're considered broken and unbalanced too). conversely, skill abstract games like TL or Diablo still gives players options to get over the brick wall. players may not like them, but they are there.

[yovargas]

I look forward to your mod with superior balance and imaginative skills.

I don't need one, I'm playing D3.

(No, D3's balance ain't perfect, but it looks way the hell better than TL2's to me.)

[Kurki]

As these two games stand now, out-of-the-box plus patches, I see TL2 as a casual kiddie game where nothing really matters (stats, items, skills), you just sort of get through the game, have your fun and proabaly put it away forever.

The grand equalizer is the low-low price of TL2, and in the future, what the modding community may or may not do with it. The sky is the limit for TL2 in that regard.

[mr punk]

eh..apparently, they're both the same in the way they destroy players idealized notion of game balance at higher levels. IMO, the difference is the presentation. while one team stated pre-release that balance (in fact, flat out said it wouldn't be balanced at all on release) is boring and fun not balance is their goal. the other team sold gullible would be inferno players on this idea there would be "billions of builds".