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  1. #41
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    Re: Choosing the Right Monster Power Level For Farming

    Quote Originally Posted by gakky View Post
    Article actually states the 6/5/4 ratio does go up.
    No, it doesn't - except in the case of the guaranteed NV drop. You can't get high enough MF to push 4 stat rares off the table. Please take the time to actually read and comprehend the article, rather than skimming for something that superficially sounds like it supports your assumptions (or stop talking about it if you're not going to invest the time to understand the mechanics).

  2. #42
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the Right Monster Power Level For Farming

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    Nope. You have a higher chance to get 6 stat rares, and 5 stat rares, but you also have a higher chance to get 4 stat rares. The ratio of 6/5/4 stat rares remains unchanged on everything except for the NV bonus drop.
    Sorry to tell ya, rectangle, but the man is right... the ratio changes.

    Let's make a crude example:
    5% 6-stat rare
    10% 5-stat rare
    15% 4-stat rare
    20% blue
    0% legendary

    Then let's get 200% (aka +100%) magic find, doubling each value. We'd still get some normal items! (Actually, a large number of them!) That's because the game rolls each chance separately instead of drawing from one big table. Thus:
    10% 6-stat rare (90% pass this to next chance)
    20% of the remainder = 18% 5-stat rare (72% pass this to next chance)
    30% of the remainder = 21.6% 4-stat rare (50.4% pass this to next chance)
    40% of the remainder = 20.6% blue (30.24% fail this and become white items)
    Ratio per 1 6-stat rare: 1.8 5-stat, 2.16 4-stat, 2.06 blue

    Now with 100% (aka +0%) magic find that would be...
    5% 6-stat rare (95% pass)
    10% of the remainder = 9.5% 5-stat rare (85.975% pass this to next chance)
    15% of the remainder = 12.89625% 4-stat rare (73.07875% pass this to next chance)
    20% of the remainder = 14.61575% blue (58.463% fail this and become white items)
    Ratio per 1 6-stat rare (approximate): 1.9 5-stat, 2.58 4-stat, 2.92 blue

    Which means the effective MF for each category would be:
    5% to 10% 6-stat rare = +100%
    9.5% to 18% 5-stat rare = +89%
    12.89625% to 21.6% 4-stat rare = +67%
    14.61575% to 20.6% blue = +41%

    In other words, whatever is the first roll scales directly with MF, but everything after that in roll-order doesn't quite scale evenly with MF.
    Last edited by Dethklok; 06-02-2013 at 01:15. Reason: small typo

  3. #43
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    Re: Choosing the Right Monster Power Level For Farming

    Mea culpa.

    Somehow to spite having previously read through all of that quite carefully, I had the old wow-style avoidance table embedded in my brain as the way that it worked (IE single roll, rather than multiple roll).

    Thanks for setting me straight.

    It doesn't really change the conclusions in this thread too much, but if we disregard 4 stat yellow as an item worth having, it does narrow the difference between low MP and high MP farming. (By reducing the amount of time wasted identifying a little bit)

    I suppose "push it off the table" is also a misnomer in a multiple roll system, since there is no table. I'm not sure what term you'd use instead though.
    Last edited by magicrectangle; 02-11-2012 at 05:00.

  4. #44
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    Re: Choosing the Right Monster Power Level For Farming

    Yes, the ratios do change, but they change so little it really doesn't matter in terms of how much time you spend identifying stuff. Besides, it's debatable whether rares are even worth picking up. While they did cut the identify time in 1/3, I still need to actually watch the elite die and drop loot, run to it to pick it up, and then read its stats. Plus, almost any rare can be good nowadays, so you identify a lot more, but each rare has less chance to be good because other people also find those rares so the definition of "good" is much higher than it was in 1.0.4.

    Currently I'm only picking up rares that got buffed in 1.0.5 or that require ilvl63 to be good (aka 63 weapons, sacred shields, wizard/wd offhands, rings, amulets, class items), and only if they actually drop close enough to me by chance. Otherwise, I just check the map for legendary drops. Even if you pick up and identify all rares, you will still get most of your gold income from legendary drops.

    As for monster power, of course if you don't really pick up rares anyway, then the ratio of 4/5/6 property rares doesn't really affect you anyway, not that it changes much as you increase MF.

  5. #45
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the Right Monster Power Level For Farming

    Quote Originally Posted by galzohar View Post
    Yes, the ratios do change, but they change so little it really doesn't matter in terms of how much time you spend identifying stuff.
    In terms of whether it's worthwhile to identify rares, I believe it's actually pretty important.

    Based off our best estimates of data, the real chances for the guaranteed Valor drop are:
    1.6% 6-stat rare
    3.9% 5-stat rare
    100% 4-stat rare

    At 75MF, that works out too:
    2.8% 6-stat rare
    6.6% 5-stat rare
    90.6% 4-stat rare

    At 625MF (300 + 5NV + MP10), instead it's:
    11.6% 6-stat rare
    25.0% 5-stat rare
    63.4% 4-stat rare

    That's a significant difference in whether it's worth your time to identify rares or not, especially for item types where a 5-stat rare could still have value.

  6. #46
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    Re: Choosing the Right Monster Power Level For Farming

    That's for the guaranteed valor drop only, for all other rares (IE the vast majority of your rares) the effect is slight.

    I've been counting on my past few runs just out of interest. Once I have 5 stacks, elite packs average 3 rare drops for me, and on the average I find almost as many rares from trash as from elites. That makes approximately only 1/6 of my rares NV rares.

    Obviously a few runs isn't enough data to say those ratios are firm, and they depend on your MF, but they give a ballpark. The NV rare just doesn't matter near as much as it used to.

  7. #47
    IncGamers Member hunterminator's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the Right Monster Power Level For Farming

    I said to myself... I got to login and give this dude the like he deserve.

    Hey can you present a live account sample?

  8. #48
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    Re: Choosing the Right Monster Power Level For Farming

    Here's some sample data for you. I'll link the log I've been keeping Alkazier run + all of stonefort.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rTndtWXc#gid=6
    there's a sheet tab at the bottom for runs in my different gear sets as I've upgraded dps and thus started fresh to experiment which MP would be ideal for the currrent gear set.
    As a side note I also did a little testing of MP10 to shed a little light on how bonus rolls work:

    MP 10, Keeps 2, Full clear only white mobs, total drops:

    0 Stacks: 19,23
    5 Stacks: 157,181

    I can confirm that you indeed get a bonus loot roll off of any drops, including potions, tomes, and gold. At MP10 this drop is 100%. But 5 stacks are required to activate the bonus roll, which as far as I know has not been mentioned anywhere in the patch notes or by anyone else currently running MP10 to my knowledge. I have not tested as to whether partial stacks increase bonus drop rate or if it's an all or nothing a 5 stacks.

    As I side note I was farming almost as efficiently by just killing 5 champ packs and killing white mobs on MP10 as my normal runs @ MP5-6 and killing everything.

  9. #49
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    Re: Choosing the Right Monster Power Level For Farming

    what stats u would say a ww barb capable of farming accord ur theory must have?

    i mean . dps / life / all res / and all the other things.

    thank you very much!

  10. #50
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the Right Monster Power Level For Farming

    I've pretty much quit playing Diablo 3. (Path of Exile was awesome and will be again, but they're having severe server issues now so I'm bored and foruming.)

    For anyone with questions for me... sorry.

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