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  1. #481
    IncGamers Member kamap's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Kestegs are you praying for me? Cause tomorrow we will know more about the problems with my soldiers and so on.
    If you don't pray for me at least pray for my soldiers or my wife.

  2. #482
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by kestegs View Post
    I don't think all people appreciate it, no. Some probably do though. But if you think someone is going to view it negatively then you don't have to tell them that you're doing it.
    Well, I tend to think that prayer definitely shouldn't be secretive; that's kind of self-defeating. I simply tend not to pray for people who are overtly hostile in that fashion, or I just pray quickly that their minds be opened. Resentment of those who would wish supernatural blessings for you is.... POINTLESS AND STUPID! Like getting angry at a Christmas card.
    Quote Originally Posted by kamap View Post
    Kestegs are you praying for me? Cause tomorrow we will know more about the problems with my soldiers and so on.
    If you don't pray for me at least pray for my soldiers or my wife.
    I'll pray for you if you let me know WTF you're referring to. Because if two or more agree, well, you hopefully know the rest.

  3. #483
    IncGamers Member kamap's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Read the DooL and thou shalt know!

  4. #484
    D3 Off Topic Moderator Dredd's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    I think you're projecting here, TBH. I suppose you can come up with being judgmental, but do you really believe people who aren't Christians appreciate sincerity of prayer?
    I've seen the rare Christian use the "I'll pray for you" line in a clearly provocative or passive-aggressive manner. I didn't sense that in your reply to Leo so I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about. No need to defend/clarify yourself in this instance IMO. Under normal circumstances, praying for somebody is simply another way of saying, "Best wishes, I'm rooting for you."

    I'm an Atheist but honestly, this is not a fish worth frying.

    Oh, I think I know Leo and her beliefs well enough to be able to say that she'll understand your comment in its intended context.

    Quote Originally Posted by kestegs View Post
    I don't think all people appreciate it, no. Some probably do though. But if you think someone is going to view it negatively then you don't have to tell them that you're doing it.
    You can't always anticipate how any given individual will react. The intent is what you want to pay attention to, not the simple act. I'm worried that the PC police may have gotten to ya.

  5. #485
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamap View Post
    Read the DooL and thou shalt know!
    I don't recall that particular acronym, which is why I prefer embedded links. How's about I just pray for God's blessings on you & your wife?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    I've seen the rare Christian use the "I'll pray for you" line in a clearly provocative or passive-aggressive manner.
    Agree, but it's been extremely rare in my experience since it's clearly not uttered graciously, as in a context of grace. Kind of like "Well, Bless your heart!" being uttered insincerely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    Oh, I think I know Leo and her beliefs well enough to be able to say that she'll understand your comment in its intended context.
    Kind of what I thought, too. I'd be more up for a discussion about spiritual dangers and their being potentially pointless and/or stupid than well-wishes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    You can't always anticipate how any given individual will react. The intent is what you want to pay attention to, not the simple act. I'm worried that the PC police may have gotten to ya.
    One of your fellow Atheists, who I still hold in high esteem despite his antipathy towards God, said it best IMO:

    Last edited by jmervyn; 09-04-2013 at 15:42. Reason: Clarification

  6. #486
    D3 Monk Moderator kestegs's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamap View Post
    Kestegs are you praying for me? Cause tomorrow we will know more about the problems with my soldiers and so on.
    If you don't pray for me at least pray for my soldiers or my wife.
    Yea, in am. And I will continue to.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    Well, I tend to think that prayer definitely shouldn't be secretive; that's kind of self-defeating. I simply tend not to pray for people who are overtly hostile in that fashion, or I just pray quickly that their minds be opened. Resentment of those who would wish supernatural blessings for you is.... POINTLESS AND STUPID! Like getting angry at a Christmas card.

    I'll pray for you if you let me know WTF you're referring to. Because if two or more agree, well, you hopefully know the rest.
    In don't see why that's self defeating at all, but in still see your point and don't disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamap View Post
    Read the DooL and thou shalt know!
    People outside the spf don't know what the dool is, you should probably provide a link of you're going to keep referencing it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    I've seen the rare Christian use the "I'll pray for you" line in a clearly provocative or passive-aggressive manner. I didn't sense that in your reply to Leo so I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about. No need to defend/clarify yourself in this instance IMO. Under normal circumstances, praying for somebody is simply another way of saying, "Best wishes, I'm rooting for you."

    I'm an Atheist but honestly, this is not a fish worth frying.

    Oh, I think I know Leo and her beliefs well enough to be able to say that she'll understand your comment in its intended context.



    You can't always anticipate how any given individual will react. The intent is what you want to pay attention to, not the simple act. I'm worried that the PC police may have gotten to ya.
    Maybe you're right, but I have a different standard of PC. I did view it as passive aggressive, but I don't really think it was anymore. Sorry, Merv.

  7. #487
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by kestegs View Post
    Maybe you're right, but I have a different standard of PC. I did view it as passive aggressive, but I don't really think it was anymore. Sorry, Merv.
    'salright. I'm widely misunderstood.

    As for self-defeating, while I believe in the reality of the supernatural (we can't see quarks or dark matter as far as I recall, but aren't they accepted as fact?) I ALSO believe that much of prayer's efficacy is along the lines of "Win friends and influence people" - the old 'power of positive thinking' concept. Placebo studies pretty much prove how critical the mind is regarding matters of health.

    P.S. regarding supernatural issues, my twin aunts experienced some sort of telepathy or similar issue when juveniles - one fell down and hurt herself, whereupon the other informed the family of the event at several miles distance. They didn't have cell phones in the 1930's, as best I recall.

  8. #488
    D3 Off Topic Moderator Dredd's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    Kind of what I thought, too. I'd be more up for a discussion about spiritual dangers and their being potentially pointless and/or stupid than well-wishes.
    When you brought up the dangers of divination the other day, I really wanted to jump into the discussion but was short on time. Sadly, I'm short on time today as well; however, if this were to turn into a full-blown discussion I'd be happy to participate. Strange as it may sound, I know quite alot about what I'll politely refer to as the "fine art of divination," magic and the occult in general. I'm a collector of mystical odds and ends, in fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    One of your fellow Atheists, who I still hold in high esteem despite his antipathy towards God, said it best IMO:

    I miss that man every single day.

  9. #489
    D3 Monk Moderator kestegs's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    'salright. I'm widely misunderstood.

    As for self-defeating, while I believe in the reality of the supernatural (we can't see quarks or dark matter as far as I recall, but aren't they accepted as fact?) I ALSO believe that much of prayer's efficacy is along the lines of "Win friends and influence people" - the old 'power of positive thinking' concept. Placebo studies pretty much prove how critical the mind is regarding matters of health.

    P.S. regarding supernatural issues, my twin aunts experienced some sort of telepathy or similar issue when juveniles - one fell down and hurt herself, whereupon the other informed the family of the event at several miles distance. They didn't have cell phones in the 1930's, as best I recall.

    I'm trying to understand you, but you're not making it easy on me!

    You do have a good point about the placebo effect though, I'm a strong believer in it but hadn't really related it to prayer. And I'm not saying that I think prayer is merely a placebo effect, so people don't need to go there

  10. #490
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    Strange as it may sound, I know quite alot about what I'll politely refer to as the "fine art of divination," magic and the occult in general. I'm a collector of mystical odds and ends, in fact.
    As an atheist? Do tell. Because such belief pretty much invalidates the claims of atheism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
    I miss that man every single day.
    Yeah, he was one of the greats - a perfect example of a leftist atheist who I admired.
    Quote Originally Posted by kestegs View Post
    I'm trying to understand you, but you're not making it easy on me!
    I suppose there's other very worthwhile things I'm supposed to make easier for you?*

    *My self-imagined boss, who is in reality simply my head client, was shouting down the corridor for my assistance the minute I entered the building (after my hour-long morning commute). Turns out one of the inspection team had disconnected the computer/projector setup he planned to use for their in-brief.
    Quote Originally Posted by kestegs View Post
    You do have a good point about the placebo effect though, I'm a strong believer in it but hadn't really related it to prayer. And I'm not saying that I think prayer is merely a placebo effect, so people don't need to go there
    Nor was I; the concept of 'positive thinking' prayer as "calling things that are not as though they are" is precisely what causes the effect. Any manner of silly motivational speaker presentations discuss the concept of visualization, and I'm simply of the belief that it's all the same mechanism. I can pray secretly for kamap, but by letting him know that I'm praying for him, it assists his own 'grace'.

    I don't think this is all unilaterally on the positive, either - that's why I mentioned it to Leo regarding Ouija and Tarot.

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