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  1. #591
    IncGamers Member Glurin's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamap View Post
    Well very young doesn't really say much, there weren't guns for kids in the house I presume.
    Ages 3-14ish. And yes, there were. Several actually.

    I'm not saying they should be a mystery and hidden away, I just want people to show responsibility towards owning a gun, teach kids about sure, don't let them shoot one till a certain age.
    And they do. You just don't think so because all you get shown is stories about people waving them around in the air and shooting in random directions. Half of the U.S. is gun owners, and yet it's not the wild west. Even the wild west wasn't the wild west.

    By the way, letting them shoot one is the absolute best way to teach kids about guns. Well, let me rephrase that. It's the best way to do it without inducing paranoia or overcharging their curiosity. It lets them see that guns are weapons and that they aren't something to be feared.

    Most kids go to school at the age of 6 and learn to read and write then, not before, they might be able to read a few letters / write a few, but mostly just their names and maybe some names from their family. Like I said I have a nephew of five, he can write his own name, his moms, dads and younger sisters names and read them but thats it, next year the year he turns six he will go to school and learn to write and read properly then. So he aint slow he is normal, I don't have kids yet, but I pressume if I do get kids they will also learn to read and write aroudn the age of 6 and not before.
    Cause again at the age of 5 responsibility, predicting what will happen when they take certain actions and things you should graps before learning how to handle a gun, isn't known to them.
    My whole immediate family was already reading and writing by then. This "oh he's just a kid" attitude is part of the problem. They can learn responsibility and consequences at that age. But this is more a question of upbringing.

    Hopefully somewhere in the middle.
    We're already well beyond the middle.

    Yeah why not, here in belgium there are laws that are outdated aswell and they should be rewritten, the world changes and laws written at a certain time don't grow with the time, so form time to time they should be rewritten?
    Wow, that's scary. Certain fundamental principles do not change. People change, especially if they forget the reasons behind those principles and why the laws were written as the were in the first place.

    Well then most people might be breaking the law, you can't just shoot your gun where you want it, it might do no harm, but there are laws against it, it depends from state to state and maybe even from town to town, I have no clue where you live or where the persons from the cities live, so I can't look it up what is legal or what isn't.
    Generally speaking it's just that you can't fire a gun within city limits. (exception for shooting ranges of course) Out in the country, nobody gives a rat's *** unless there's a house or a road behind what you're shooting at. Also no shooting from the road, for the same reason.

    Where do you got the 1% from?
    I was really throwing you a bone with that number.

    There are roughly fifty million households in the U.S. that have guns. (About half.) Note that that's just households, not individual gun owners.

    There are an estimated 20,000 gun accidents every year at the high end.

    20,000 divided by 50 million = .04%

    Even if you were to add gun crime, you still wouldn't get above 1%.

    Also, just FYI, there are about 89 guns for every individual person in the United States, including almost 500,000 machine guns. Yes, full-auto, spray and pray, Rambo wannabe drool inducer tools of destruction. And yet we're not all dead. How can that be? Guns aren't the reason behind violent acts, perhaps?

    Fired a shotgun, fired some handguns, fired a .22 sniper rifle, I know it aint easy to hit your target, but its still quite easy to shoot and with minimal training you can hit your target, I had no training what so ever and I did hit my targets more then once.
    There's quite a difference between hitting a stationary paper target and killing a moving one.

  2. #592
    D3 Monk Moderator kestegs's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    There's 4.5 billion guns in the US? Or all of the world?

    The way you said it sounds like the US, but that can't be right.

  3. #593
    IncGamers Member Glurin's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    DOH! You're right. I missed a decimal. It's .89 per individual, or around 300,000,000+ total. Obviously there's going to be a lot of fluctuation, but that's about where it's estimated at.

  4. #594
    D3 Monk Moderator kestegs's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Okay, I can believe that!

  5. #595
    IncGamers Member kamap's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Well the older kids can watch the younger ones, its good that nothing bad happened but like you said thats upbringing.
    Still at the age of 5 kids should be kids and play around, not learn about responsibility and consequence, which at the age of 5 is still hard to graps, cause they still have a very vivid imagination and can't discern real from fake, most of the time.

    Its not the wild west, but it has the most gun deaths a year compared to similar "wealthy" countries who aint in a war (on their soil).

    Getting to know something by experience is always better then beeing thought about it, but there are certain age limits, when you can learn about things, drinking, driving and other things have an age limit, why not gun ownership / handling.

    Most kids of 5 can't read or write at that age.

    From your point of view we are beyonf the middle, from other people points of view we are far from it. Can't really say what the middle is can we, but a few extra rules about it wouldn't hurt.

    Principles change aswell, laws get old, the constitution (of about any country) is still a nice document and something where you can start from, its outdated and should be relooked / rewritten.
    If laws written in a certain time don't get old we should see a whole lot of men with a pair of horse-blinders in new york, its a law and its still in effect, no one cares and that law should better be scratched or rewritten:
    In New York, a fine of $25 can be levied for flirting. This old law specifically prohibits men from turning around on any city street and looking "at a woman in that way." A second conviction for a crime of this magnitude calls for the violating male to be forced to wear a "pair of horse-blinders" wherever and whenever he goes outside for a stroll.

    No one gives a damn, but they might still be breaking the law.

    You are only counting the accidents your not counting your uncle who lets guns and ammo lying around, thats not responsible gun ownership. I'm not talking about the deaths, gun crime and such, I'm talking about responsible gun ownership.

    "Guns aren't the reason behind violent acts, perhaps?" I haven't said that now did I?

    True you have to "lead" your target, but there where some moving targets aswell, I did hit them less then the none moving ones but I did hit them. I was just poiting out that I have fired guns, which you believed I didn't.

  6. #596
    D3 Monk Moderator kestegs's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamap View Post
    Well the older kids can watch the younger ones, its good that nothing bad happened but like you said thats upbringing.
    Still at the age of 5 kids should be kids and play around, not learn about responsibility and consequence, which at the age of 5 is still hard to graps, cause they still have a very vivid imagination and can't discern real from fake, most of the time.
    No, that's wrong. If you wait until after 5 to start teaching kids about responsibility and consequences you are already too late. By 5 they will have deeply rooted habits, behaviors, and expectations that will be very difficult to reverse if you haven't started teaching them that stuff yet. Now of course they don't need the same level of responsibility and consequence as an adult, but they still need it.

    When my son was 5 I could have left a gun on my coffee table and explained why it was unsafe and he would have left it alone. Would I do that? No, but the point remains.

  7. #597
    IncGamers Member Glurin's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamap View Post
    Its not the wild west, but it has the most gun deaths a year compared to similar "wealthy" countries who aint in a war (on their soil).
    I believe I already covered this. You're focusing on gun deaths specifically, which is the wrong way to look at it. You're not seeing the forest for the trees.

    From your point of view we are beyonf the middle, from other people points of view we are far from it. Can't really say what the middle is can we, but a few extra rules about it wouldn't hurt.
    Oh yes they will. Not just by themselves either. The main problem with "a few extra rules" is there's always a few more rules that "won't hurt". Lets say we have a cake. I want all of it. You want all of it. So, I say we compromise and cut it in half. I still want all of it. So I take your half as well, and you object. I offer to cut what was your half in half and give you half of it. You object and I make a big deal about how unreasonable you are because you refuse to meet me in the middle. People who are barely paying attention join in on my side since to them it sounds like I'm the reasonable one, seeing as I offered to give you half. Eventually, you give in and are left with a quarter of the cake, which I then take and repeat the process until you are left with a few crumbs.

    Principles change aswell, laws get old, the constitution (of about any country) is still a nice document and something where you can start from, its outdated and should be relooked / rewritten.
    If laws written in a certain time don't get old we should see a whole lot of men with a pair of horse-blinders in new york, its a law and its still in effect, no one cares and that law should better be scratched or rewritten:
    In New York, a fine of $25 can be levied for flirting. This old law specifically prohibits men from turning around on any city street and looking "at a woman in that way." A second conviction for a crime of this magnitude calls for the violating male to be forced to wear a "pair of horse-blinders" wherever and whenever he goes outside for a stroll.
    But we're not talking about making faces at women. We're talking about basic human rights. Rewriting those "because they're old" is like putting up a giant neon sign inviting tyranny and fascism.

    You are only counting the accidents your not counting your uncle who lets guns and ammo lying around, thats not responsible gun ownership. I'm not talking about the deaths, gun crime and such, I'm talking about responsible gun ownership.
    Accidents are the only measurable indicator of irresponsibility, but even if you had twenty times as many accidents, you still won't get above 1%. And remember, we aren't even talking about individual gun owners here.

    Even if we were to assume that there are a huge percentage of gun owners that were acting irresponsibly, the only way you're going to be able to enforce laws to prevent it is if you go full jackbooted thug and randomly search people and their houses.

    "Guns aren't the reason behind violent acts, perhaps?" I haven't said that now did I?
    Not in so many words.

    True you have to "lead" your target, but there where some moving targets aswell, I did hit them less then the none moving ones but I did hit them. I was just poiting out that I have fired guns, which you believed I didn't.
    I didn't say hit. I said kill. But yes, I'll acknowledge that you've fired a gun before, which is more than can be said for most pushing gun control.

  8. #598
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Couldn't have said it better myself, particularly the second and third responses, and probably wouldn't have.


  9. #599
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Kamap, you gotta learn how the quotes work.

    click reply with quote, see those codes at the beginning and end? those are quote tags and they let us see what you're responding to. YOu can add more with the button that looks like a cartoon character talking. For me it's the last one on the right.

    Or you could just type it in. the first one opens, and the one with the slash in it closes the quote.

  10. #600
    D3 Off Topic Moderator Dredd's Avatar
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    Re: Things you hate because they're pointless and stupid - continued.

    Knowing I have forum chores.
    Small town ISP offline (likely due to lightning storms).
    Happens at least once a month.

    Pointless and stupid because I get needlessly restless. It's not like the only thing standing between law and chaos is me. :P

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