1.04 Trail of Cinders Build

[Kalixian]

I've been using bat companion as well.

[lanceuppercut]

Finally got my DH back to a level where I can try ToC and it's nice but I found myself vaulting into danger more than I should be. Not going full ToC build as in the OP but rather switching from tumble to see what the fuss was about and I do like vaulting through a elite pack and watching the carnage!

But is it me or does the trail not go as far as a vault (with TA) goes? That's a bit weird as it needs me to walk up to the target then vault through them for full effect..

If it's recommended to SP/gloom for the life leech then the disc hit will be quite big (14+8 per vault). As it doesn't seem to crit, the obvious nightstalker is out, might consider perfectionist to lessen the blow?

[Greizer]

Is there a Hatred spender that doesn't crit? I've got 54k dmg with Sharpshooter and 20k without it; I find that Multishot shoots so fast that you only get off one volley, at most two, at the full dmg and even then it does meager dmg compared to ToC. So it would be cool to be able to keep the dmg up by not critting at all (until they fix SS... Not seen a QQ thread about it on the official forums yet, so hopefully it will stay this way for a while). Ofc this means no more Disc gain from Multishot, but I think more than double dmg all the time is worth it... If there are no Hatred spenders that won't crit then the whole point is moot ofc.

I've found that with bad gear Smokescreen is superior to Gloom, not to mention that the CC break that it gives is *extremely* helpful. The usual tactic for me is to pop SS, then Vault straight into center of pack, Vault back out to where I came from, wait for Disc to regen a bit, do another Vault or two, then pop Prep and start over. It's worked very well so far; I am in Act III and Siegebreaker is dead now, and I've still got quite bad gear. Ofc I die quite a bit; I can progess in Act III but I can't farm it atm, unlike Act II. 350 res, 38k life, 54k dmg and 2800 armor... About 300 life regen (nowhere near enough), and stacked +crit dmg to use the SS trick. About 170 mf without nv atm; I cba to swap mf gear back and forth.

Edit: I switched Nightstalker to Archery because I figured that with more dmg you need less Disc to kill packs. Seems to be working quite well so far, but it feels like a terrible waste to shoot Multishot now because I lose 60% of my dmg... It takes quite a while for SS to load up again to full percentage. If this kink can somehow be worked out then I'll become truly unstoppable! *muahaha*

[Such Violent Storms]

WDs are no longer what I would consider weak... if they ever were (VQ bears had the highest dps in the game bar none, with correct positioning). Now WDs have pets that are effectively immortal and they can still tank like champions because Rain of Toads and Acid Cloud have what seem to be the highest effective proc coefficients currently available on any skill. Both of those are DoTs; RoT has a 50% coefficient per tick, lasts 2 seconds, and is a stacking (small) AoE. Acid Cloud has a... difficult-to-test-but-high coefficient and all sorts of runes to customize it for your purpose. Other WD builds got nice buffs, too.

I can say that in practice, most of this is wrong.

Spoiler

My tank WD has 700+ all res, with 900 physical. 5.5k armor, a 20% block shield, and 1k LoH. At 1.4 APS, I can stack tons of toads and spew an acid rain for its duration, constantly. My damage is 20k unbuffed, which for a tank WD is quite good. With Soul Harvest I reach 24k damage, fully stacked toads + acid cloud ticks for 29k. I tick 5k health, so about 10k health/second. Jungle Fort./Bad Medicine/Zombie Handler. I've tried Spirit Vessel, it makes no difference.

Act 2 is a joke, i can tank through triple desc stacks in act 2 without having to move. My pets don't die with the Handler passive.

Act 3 is entirely different. Monster AI changes and you have annoying monsters that knock you back or moloks that do stupid amounts of fire damage at range. The succubus curse hurts even more. My pets die in act 3 to elite mobs. I even tried stacking Life Regen to 1.5k and using Fierce Loyalty, which with my armor/resists should make the pets "immortal," but no. You must kite, because in an amazing jump of damage I can hardly tank 1 desecrator, let alone molten/plagued/electrified. If you get frozen in a bad situation you just die, no question, even with an acid cloud and Manitou passively returning health. Tank WDs are terrible when they have to move, and the 29k damage ticks are no where near enough to kill fast enough, so you die before the mob does.

But this thread isn't about WDs. Trail of Cinders is pretty much a staple on DH bars, even if they don't focus around spamming it, because d0mAgez. I was thinking though, I saw a DH using Acid Strike and noticed the ridiculous number of bolas on the screen. He was using a slow 2H crossbow, too, so I could only imagine the sheer number of attacks using a 1H crossbow and quiver, or 2 1H crossbows. With the archery passive for +10% crit chance and the Nightstalker passive for discipline on crit, I wonder if you could gain enough discipline to spam not only Cinders, but gloom and other disc-heavy skills.

[lanceuppercut]

is it me or is there a slight delay after vaulting and before another one can be done?

or is it the way I'm playing, I use LMB as my hatred generator and "2" as vault. sometimes I find myself "stuck" firing even though I'm hammering 2 to vault away.

[Greizer]

Apparently there is no Hatred spender that doesn't crit... At least all of them did when I tested them. Pity about that.

@lanceuppercut: I think this is a general problem with the game, most likely due to inherent online delay. Even without lag it takes a while for commands to go through, and sometimes you have to hit the button twice or more to make it register. It's one reason I won't try HC... Molten Fast naturally fast enemies are another.

[lanceuppercut]

the odd thin is tumble seems a lot more "responsive" but that might just be a placebo effect!

whilst levelling up my DH, came across a reflect pack, didn't even stick around long enough to see the other affixes were as I probably wouldn't survive ToC being reflected back!!

[Greizer]

It's not too bad actually, although most deaths (for me) are due to reflect packs. Smokescreen stops the dmg, so just do a ToC and then immediately SS afterwards.

[Micahwc]

Reflect is how I die the most and also why I use nether tentacles with gloom. I use ToC but when I try to use it as a primary attack I tend to die a lot. For me I have found that it is better to play as a "normal" ranged demon hunter and to use ToC on enemies which will either follow me, move slowly, or stand completely still. I also like to use it through narrow passageways to force enemies through it.

I switched out evasive fire for bolo shot because I found myself constantly back flipping when in close quarters. This was annoying because I would often backflip unintentionaly, and then lack the discipline to use ToC. I use the bolo shot with the chance to stun as stun + ToC = dead enemy. Nether tentacles works for AOE damage, though ball lightning, frost arrow, cluster bomb, etc. would also work just as well.

[lanceuppercut]

am really undecided about ToC, it's weakness to reflect is cause for alarm especially as I'm playing in HC.

retreating is also nice but I think caltrop/TG as an escape is counter productive as its rooting them outside of the fire, however I can't see myself dropping TG as its too useful in countering fast monsters. on the flip side a TG root the vault through is satisfying indeed..

plus the trail fades away a little too quick.