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  1. #51
    IncGamers Member Dogbert's Avatar
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    Re: Any Ideas how to make an effective build now?

    4.68 life steal isn't even enough to prevent instant gib? Sounds very effective to me. What's the point of having life steal then?

    At the end of the day zbears is just a (fun) gimmick skill just like i wrote. So so for clearing white trash but utterly ineffective vs any pack or boss with reflect. But maybe the fun is more important in a video game. I can sympathize with that .

    Thank you for your report mcpwtb.

  2. #52
    IncGamers Member Hoopiness's Avatar
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    Re: Any Ideas how to make an effective build now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbert View Post
    Zombie bears is just a gimmick skill. Wasted skill slot vs anything with reflect. And there's a lot of reflect in inferno.
    Nonsense. Get some life steal etc and it's fine.

    Anyway, on topic: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/H...33/hero/194808

    I've found my current build is what gives me the best damage output vs survivability at higher MP levels (key farming - generally on MP5-7). By no means a cheap build, but having spammable dogs (note, not 0 cooldown) and 18k health each time you sacrifice just makes it much easier to stay alive.

    The crits from dogs are lovely of course (~400-550k), but I found it too frustrating running a zero cooldown build and not relying on any other damage output. Dog AI/running time, enemy spread etc can all be frustrating, so I dropped Zombie Handler (4 dogs becomes 3) and picked up Blood Ritual. A slower 1h weapon lets me spam bears for a reasonable window at enemies that are static whilst fighting the dogs/gargantuan. Throw in sacrifices here and there and things die pretty quickly. If mana runs out, you just fall back on the summoner/sac routine for a few seconds whilst it regens, or pop spirit walk and take the 30% refill from that to get you over the line.

    Generally, mana isn't an issue as most things die before I'm out. I have reasonably all res/armor/vit, but the survivability comes from the dogs/garg and you hanging back dealing your damage. No need to kite etc. The downside is that your DPS stat on the paper doll suffers because you are tied into certain ZD cooldown items (ie, homunculus). So I'm around 60k DPS, and generally 95-105k buffed in game. Though I'm not sure how accurate it is for this build, given the dog sacrifice output etc and the fact you can generally stand and output your damage (versus builds that require far more movement when no output is forthcoming).

    Edit: On the reflect/ZB debate - it can catch you out when you have your back to the wall so the bears are lined up and you are catching 3 x elites with the whole stream. Like I say though, 18k health on sacrifice is a fair ally on that one.
    Last edited by Hoopiness; 01-11-2012 at 14:54.

  3. #53
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    Re: Any Ideas how to make an effective build now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbert View Post
    4.68 life steal isn't even enough to prevent instant gib? Sounds very effective to me. What's the point of having life steal then?

    At the end of the day zbears is just a (fun) gimmick skill just like i wrote. So so for clearing white trash but utterly ineffective vs any pack or boss with reflect. But maybe the fun is more important in a video game. I can sympathize with that .

    Thank you for your report mcpwtb.
    Your welcome, but that was just one elite out of several in that game which were affixed with reflects damage.

    It was such a shock to die instantly, it's fairly rare for me to run into a reflects damage and die before I have a chance to think. I'll remember the next time it happens.

    I do die more often to vortex/jailer + frozen/arcane/molten.

    Maybe it's time to keep track of which ones kill me the most and figure out a counter strategy, or maybe just SV passive next time.


    Now Siegebreaker, I cannot drop it with bears alone. I need another life skill to be life positive (or run away for some time until potion heals).

    So now that I have you here, I have different items I found, a blackthorns 430LoH and a skorn with 920 LoH, for a total of 1350 LoH:
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/M...7/hero/2080203

    So what's your recommended build?
    I've tried out a few things but on MP5, but I was running for my life rather than standing there and delivering damage. This is also related to playing bears for so long that I need to adjust to different play styles.

  4. #54
    IncGamers Member Doctor Clock's Avatar
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    Re: Any Ideas how to make an effective build now?

    My Witch Doctor has 100k dps and never dies to reflects. Survives fine in MP 10 as well. 3% life steal is enough for me. If reflect is a problem, get LoH and run with a Toad/Bear build. Bears for burst, Toads for sustain.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/D...2/hero/2590923

  5. #55
    IncGamers Member Dogbert's Avatar
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    Re: Any Ideas how to make an effective build now?

    Or you can just go acid rain and don't have to worry about reflect. I.e play a non gimmick build

  6. #56
    IncGamers Member Doctor Clock's Avatar
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    Re: Any Ideas how to make an effective build now?

    You're misusing the word gimmick.

  7. #57
    IncGamers Member Dogbert's Avatar
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    Re: Any Ideas how to make an effective build now?

    No worries i was just kidding in my last post.

  8. #58
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    Re: Any Ideas how to make an effective build now?

    The argument I've seen over on the bnet forums is this the following:
    "Reflects damage is broken because"

    1. Locust, WoS, Bears, etc., all cause the user to lose life, even with a lot of LoH and/or Life steal.
    2. Only RoT and Acid Cloud are life positive against reflects damage, with LoH.
    3. With lots of expensive equipment, a player can overcome Reflects damage.

    4. Everyone must use either RoT or AC to counter the Reflects Damage elites. (stronger statement)
    5. Reflects Damage is the only elite affix which causes users to be forced to use anything in particular. (weaker statement)

    Therefore, Reflects damage needs to be changed because it forces players to use one of two specific skills to survive,
    OR to have spent lots of gold/money on expensive equipment that is rare, even considering the AH,
    OR to have to play at an artificially low MP setting only for Reflects Damage elites, where in the rest of the content is relatively easy.


    There was a blue response in other places, saying they are looking into changing reflects damage.
    The rational is, with higher MP, monsters have more HP, take more damage to kill, and therefore cause more damage to be reflected to the player.

  9. #59
    IncGamers Member Dogbert's Avatar
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    Re: Any Ideas how to make an effective build now?

    I have no idea how players without rot or ac handle reflect packs. I have been using acid cloud for 25 paragon levels so i don't have any problems with reflect.

    Just tried bears once or twice and blew myself up. Didn't feel very effective to me but i can imagine it depends highly on which mp setting you like and your gear of course.
    Also If you can splash packs before you lose too much hp it doesn't really matter right?

    This was before 1.0.5 when i started playing wd.
    I reasoned as follows: If i use bears i have to get higher mitigation to survive (reflect + melee range) but why bother when i can just use acid cloud and be fine.

    For bears i would have to get gear with more armour/all res AND at the same time retain the offensive stats to not drop in dps. This would cost A LOT more gold. Since i'm doing fine with my current gear i see no reason why i should spend more gold just to be able to use a different skill.


    mcpwtb: I read that discussion about reflect. Sounds like they will make reflect an ability liked shielding that isn't up all the time. I absolutely love that idea. Would open up for more tactical approaches

  10. #60
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    Re: Any Ideas how to make an effective build now?

    After some failures and some successes, I decided, for me, farming takes too long without bears.
    So last night I just decided to use bears and AC. I have no problems with mana at MP5. Wouldn't work at higher MP obviously, bears and AC only will run one out of mana:
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/M...7/hero/2080203

    Requirements might be: Can kill most elites after the second sacrifice (if necessary), some mana regen, and some max mana.

    Was surviving better due to AC slow burn LoH during the tick and BR Life regen.
    I tried both the 900 LoH skorn and the LS weapon I have equipped, both worked about the same, but I get a more balanced gear setup with the LS weapon.

    I ran all the way from Siege breaker to Az.


    I agree about tactical improvements to this game. Diablo 2 had a nice approach in Hell with Immune to Poison/cold/fire etc. Diablo 3 got rid of that completely. I think some white enemies need this, rather than just variable HP, Damage, and some annoying AI patterns. Maybe arcane affix can spawn on the white enemies in a group, but the arcane damage is really low and the beam is shorter.

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