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  1. #1
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    Rend: Let's talk about it

    So now that Devil's Anvil doesn't really work (believe me I tried), time to look for new fun builds that aren't WW/Sprint. So, I've turned my eyes to the new Rend. I've been using it with the Blood Lust rune. It certainly does some serious damage, and gives you some serious health to boot. One could theoretically make a build based on staying alive just with just that combination. Thing is, the health you get back is based on how much damage you can get Rend to do, so pumping up its damage as much as possible is a must. The first obvious thing is that this would probably favor a 2H weapon, especially now that they can roll some really impressive stats. The next obvious thing would be any buff that increases your raw damage, like Marauder's Rage, Berserker Rage, Weapon Master + Sword/Dagger, Insanity, Punish, and Maniac.

    Beyond that though... there are some things I seriously don't understand about Rend and bleed damage. Can Rend even crit? Even on the initial hit? I kept trying to hit things with Rend with Overpower on cooldown to see if its express cooldown would trigger, but it never did, even on Rend's initial hit. Either Rend doesn't crit, or its crits just don't proc any on-crit effects. I didn't really test it with any other on-crit effects like Battle Rage runes, but I don't have high hopes for them. At any rate, Overpower doesn't play well with Rend. Worst case, crit isn't any use at all with Rend even for the sake of just increasing its damage. That'd be a bold claim though. Can anybody confirm whether or not Rend actually crits at all?

    Oh also: if you use Rend, and then increase your damage before the bleed runs out, does the rest of that bleed effect do more damage? Or is it only based off of the damage you did at initial hit?

    Of course, Rend could also just suppliment another build. I was originally going to add it to a Devil's Anvil build, but obviously that's not going to happen. Something you could do is add it to a WW/Sprint build, possibly replacing your primary with Rend. Since rend costs 20 fury just like sprint, you could start the build off by hitting with the normal attack through hitting the button you have Rend set to. Then when you think you have 20 fury, pop Sprint and run through the enemies to get some tornadoes going, and then go from there. Then you could stop every 5 seconds and throw down a Rend, increasing the damage of that build by quite a bit. You'd also have your pick of runes since obviously LoH is already healing you (though more health never hurts, if you think you need to be more defensive).

    With a SS/Weapon Throw/Spear build, Rend doesn't seem like it would be a great help since you'd spend most of your time away from enemies. I think. At least I know I don't stand right in the middle of enemies much when I use SS + Rumble, since I kinda want them all to one side of me.

    Rend feels like a potentially powerful tool now. It'd be nice to figure out how to optimize it.



  2. #2
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    Re: Rend: Let's talk about it

    I used Rend fairly extensively in 1.03. My read on the mechanic is that the damage is generated on the initial Rend hit and then simply applied over the duration. Given that, I don't think changing your damage modifiers mid-bleed will do anything as the game already figured out how much damage was going to get done when you triggered Rend.

    It can definitely crit even though the damage numbers never have the crit highlight color - just test it a bit and you'll see every so often one of the opponents will be ticking for a much larger value. The crits come on the initial hit, not tick by tick, so if you've got a tough enemy gushing blood from a Rend crit, don't reapply Rend too early or you may have your crit bleed overwritten by a regular bleed.

    I didn't use it with any "proc on crit" effects so I'm not sure what the synergy is with those kind of abilities... though I'm really hoping it can work with BR: Bloodshed as that combination has a certain gory appeal...

    Anyway, I'm really looking forward to using Rend in 1.04 (tomorrow night, barring any unforseen catastrophe). It was viable, though not spectacular, in 1.03... with the damage boost it should be very powerful now.




  3. #3
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    Re: Rend: Let's talk about it

    Would a 2h build around Rend and Revenge do well? I just started to do the WW/Sprint build and it works pretty well, but it feels like a gimmick build. I also prefer 2h builds and really want to do one.



  4. #4
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    Re: Rend: Let's talk about it

    I've always liked Rend, even before the damage buff that came along with 1.04. Leveling from 1-60, I had a blast jumping in with Leap - Iron Impact, using Ground Stomp - Wrenching Smash and then following that up Rend and then Cleaving everything into submission. I always appreciated how I could pop Rend for the initial blow and continue to do damage with Cleave while it ticked away.

    Then Inferno happened.

    Before double tornado was even a thing, I pretty much got pigeonholed into the same basic set of skills that everyone ended up using, i.e. Frenzy, Revenge, War Cry, Leap Attack, Ignore Pain, etc. Spending millions on gear and stacking vitality and all resists I managed to clear Act 2 Inferno with close to 1000 all resists buffed, about 25% block, and a measly 8000 DPS.

    With the Inferno damage nerf and the inclusion of ilvl 63 drops in Act 1 and 2 I began gearing my barbarian for Act 2 glass cannon speed clearing (sadly no additional MF). Before I took my hiatus, I was using Frenzy, Revenge, War Cry, Battle Rage, Leap Attack and Wrath of the Beserker, with at least 2 damage passives (Ruthless and Weapon Master). I peaked at 75k DPS, dual wielding and fully buffed (Wrath of the Beserker not active). Clears were fast, but I was getting bored. Act 3 was somewhat doable but was slow and I died a lot more (resists were now only at 400-500). It seemed like Act 2 was more lucrative and safer due to the sheer speed of my clears.

    1.04 has brought me back! I enjoy the paragon system, it gives me a sense of progression beyond finding a couple of sellable items per magic find run. Back to the subject at hand, Rend with Blood Lust is very viable for maintaining health and has actually replaced Revenge as my primary life leech skill. Here's my current setup:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...YRk!ZYb!YZaZac

    Currently I'm dual wielding with heavy emphasis on crit and crit damage. I have negligible life on hit (~300), 2.7% life leech from my belt, but maintain my 75k dps with Battle Rage up. I'm floating at about 45k health, 7k armor fully buffed and 400-500 all resists, so I'm pretty delicate. However with my new Rend build I was able to clear up through Azmodan with not too many deaths. From the beginning of Act 3 to Siegebreaker, I would die once every 3-4 elite packs. It was a bit harder after that and I began to die after every 2 elite packs (on average). I imagine this build becomes even more viable once a decent 2-hander drops for me. I think I'm about 200 all resists away (while not sacrificing DPS) from absolutely facerolling my way through most of the game's content.



  5. #5
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    Re: Rend: Let's talk about it

    yeah, I liked rend early on, but it ran out of steam: definitely time to try it again.

    appreciate it if someone would remind me though: I thought DoTs like rend were based off DPS, not weapon damage, but I'm guessing with all the talk of 2H rend builds above I'm mis-remembering, and it runs off straight weapon damage?



  6. #6
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    Re: Rend: Let's talk about it

    Yeah, I considered doing Leap and Wrenching Smash together, but I kinda don't want to give up WotB. Might give it a shot though. Hey, leap can beat CC effects now, heh. The major reason I like WotB is because of the fact that it ignores CC effects. It always bothered me that Leap had no effect against them when Furious Charge did...

    The annoying thing about crit only being determined on initial hit with Rend is that you're either getting big damage or not getting big damage for 5 seconds. Which is a bit unreliable if you're trying to get health off of Rend. With a rapid-hitting attack the damage at least evens out over a relatively small time frame because normal and crit hits are dispersed throughout. So, I'm still kinda wondering if a build based on Rend would benefit more from just high base damage, rather than crit chance and crit damage. I mean, I guess you could argue that you could just keep rending until one of them crits, and then wait 5 seconds. But we have no way to immediately see if we're critting with it since yellow numbers don't come up. Ergh.

    Oh, here's a question: when you're using Berserker Rage and your Fury is maxed out and you use Rend (or any fury spender for that matter) does the attack get the benefit of Berserker Rage? Or does the game essentially remove the Fury before figuring out the attack's damage? It'd be kinda crappy if fury spenders literally could never get the benefit of the damage buff. But if they could, Rend would be the ideal choice since you're only using it every so often, meaning your fury would often be full when doing so.

    Also as much as I like Cleave, I also kinda like Bash + Punish just to make Rend that much stronger. Though you're also not hitting as many enemies between usages of Rend. Hrm... augh why did they have to nerf Anvil's proc rate so hard!

    @Diehard: Yeah, Bloodshed seems like it might be fun to use with this. Assuming it actually works. Also don't forget Slaughter on WotB. And maybe Rupture on Cleave, but that only works when something actually dies, which doesn't really help against elites. Or with making Rend stronger.


    Last edited by DarlosND; 22-08-2012 at 19:43.

  7. #7
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    Re: Rend: Let's talk about it

    I've been playing around with Rend and Blood Lust and it's real good. The amount of life I get back using a 1200+ 2hander with 1000 life after kill is absurd. I'm getting healed for ~2000 at a time when fighting crowds.



    Last edited by Insicor; 22-08-2012 at 20:48.

  8. #8
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    Re: Rend: Let's talk about it

    Rend damage doesn't stacks if you spam more than 1 attack over 5 seconds on the same group of foes? Then that drawback and the short range -outside the first rune, Ravage- makes compromises the skill usefulness. A Fury spender must let you spam as fury as you fill, imo.



  9. #9
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    Re: Rend: Let's talk about it

    Quote Originally Posted by Buran View Post
    Rend damage doesn't stacks if you spam more than 1 attack over 5 seconds on the same group of foes? Then that drawback and the short range -outside the first rune, Ravage- makes compromises the skill usefulness. A Fury spender must let you spam as fury as you fill, imo.
    I don't think every build that uses fury necessarily needs to just be blowing it constantly. The nice thing about rend is that it wouldn't require Into the Fray or anything like that.

    That said, that extra fury does kinda feel a bit wasted. I just suggested in the Bash + HotA/Smash thread that Rend + Bloodlust could be used in lieu of one of the defensive skills. Also this could potentially play nice with a high fury generating Weapon Throw build... assuming you want to have weapon throw and get close to enemies anyway.



  10. #10
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    Re: Rend: Let's talk about it

    Okay, so I managed to bag a really decent 2H mace for around only 1 million gold (this thing literally boosted my DPS by over 20,000 compared to my previous dual wielding. Nuts!), and I'm using it with Rend + Blood Lust. It is working SO well. I get so much health from Rend. I have no LoH or Life Steal to speak of (probaby part of the reason why the mace was cheap) and I manage to largely stay alive. Attack speed means nothing if you mostly rely on Rend since you only use it periodically anyway.

    My stats: http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3...nshot000he.jpg
    Hammer (and the rest of my current equipment): http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/D.../hero/12590173

    It's pretty fantastic to leap into the middle of a bunch of of enemies, throw down Rend, and then just swing for the hills. Marauder's Rage really helps up the damage (which in turn ups the life steal), and WotB + Insanity just destroys elites while keeping you alive even harder. I'm actually feeling like a legit Barbarian for once.

    I'm happy that this seems to be a viable endgame build even with no LoH. I kinda hated being reliant on LoH.

    As time goes on I'll have to fiddle with equipment, maybe eventually allowing me to replace my primary with another fury spender that I can keep using indefinitely, between Rend swings.



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