Paragon System Update from Blizzard

[Nodders]

Fanboy out.

But the there are fanboys like you to keep the balance young padawan

[Noodle]

Step A. Complain game is boring and sucks and unDiablo like.
Step B. Blizzard adds a shiny new XP bar.
Step C. OMG REINSTALLING.

Yes, that is a tragedy.

Yes, an international one that affects us all. Can the UN institute a day of mourning for those who didn't like a video game when it came out, but like it now that it's been patched? Or is it an international day of mourning for the tragic fact that not everyone on the internet has exactly the same opinion about something?

[Karamo]

I love grinding and the hard-to-reach level cap of Diablo 2 Classic was the high point of the game for me.. The ladder races before bots existed.. Oh the times.. Sadly they will never return...

[konfeta]

Yes, an international one that affects us all. Can the UN institute a day of mourning for those who didn't like a video game when it came out, but like it now that it's been patched? Or is it an international day of mourning for the tragic fact that not everyone on the internet has exactly the same opinion about something?

Only if it is accompanied by a candlelight vigil.

[Valeli]

They'll never be able to fix some of the stuff I dislike strongly about D3 (art, azmodan, etc). But some of these patches are very nice.

A bit after the fact, and I have no idea why a game in development as long as this was couldn't realize they were good ideas before hand, but it's still very nice to have them coming. I may dip back into D3 at some point to try them out.

[Simfish]

While Baal bots didn't exist until much later, getting ahead in the series since D2 has always been about bots, mostly for items. That and mindless repetition, which is why bots were so good at it. Especially given the lack of any point which is a severe demotivator for any humans (case in point: D3) but does not bother the soulless R2D2 in the slightest.



Hey guys, I can repeat the same 90 second task for hours and hours without being bored and can pay people to teleport to Baal for me. I GOT MAD SKILLS YO! YA'LL BEST BE RESPECTING ME, CUZ I'M NUMBA 1 GAMA US! REPRESENT!

I can only conclude you are trolling, as the alternative is far worse.

I wrote before that people will be addicted to high-end items just for the sake of having high-end items. That's irrational behavior as just having an item by itself does not lead to an end. But because the winners of the ladder race were always human, and because the best PvPers were always human, I disagree with the notion that getting ahead in Diablo 2 required botting. You simply could never win as a bot. Sure you could beat some scrub who didn't play the game a lot, but you could never compete with the big boys. And that's the distinction that I make, because that's what people care about.

You'd also be surprised just how much repetition gamers can endure. Gamers have been through a lot worse in the past, and you may be underestimating them almost as much as Jay Wilson did when he made Diablo 3. There will be people who will play for 18 hours a day trying to be the first to level 100. You and I may think that is silly, but there will be people who will do it.

[Steven Hazani]

I wrote before that people will be addicted to high-end items just for the sake of having high-end items. That's irrational behavior as just having an item by itself does not lead to an end. But because the winners of the ladder race were always human, and because the best PvPers were always human, I disagree with the notion that getting ahead in Diablo 2 required botting. You simply could never win as a bot. Sure you could beat some scrub who didn't play the game a lot, but you could never compete with the big boys. And that's the distinction that I make, because that's what people care about.

Oh, do tell me about these PvPers that farmed their own gear. Because last I checked, those guys weren't even interested in PvM at all. They'd either bot or buy their gear for real money (from botters/dupers) then fight each other all day.

While you're at it, show me these ladder runners that did not bot. Newsflash: They all did.

While you're mentioning PvP, surely you are aware gear > levels in this game? If not, you have never done LLD/MLD. Surely you are aware of what I mean when I say bots always win, and are not continuing to be overly literal?

You'd also be surprised just how much repetition gamers can endure. Gamers have been through a lot worse in the past, and you may be underestimating them almost as much as Jay Wilson did when he made Diablo 3. There will be people who will play for 18 hours a day trying to be the first to level 100. You and I may think that is silly, but there will be people who will do it.

And yet, after about season 2 people really stopped caring about the ladder race and just regarded it as a means to acquire resources which they convert into something out of game.

So you see, if we look at what people actually did, we can see even the easily misled eventually saw things as they were.

[Simfish]

No need to be snide. I was also deliberately careful with my wording. I never denied that many of the ladder runners were bots. However, the winners were always human. There is a difference. You also put the burden of proof on me by asking for information that is no longer relevant at this exact moment. Obviously, I haven't played Diablo 2 for quite some time now, and besides, how is it fair that you don't have to provide any proof for your assertions, whereas I do?

I was also careful when I mentioned PvPers. Sure people botted for gear as a pragmatic response to the demands of the competition. And sure there were hacks and mods that gave certain players an unfair advantage. But the most successful characters were always controlled by a human. Even bots in World of Warcraft get farmed, and it's actually quite difficult to script an AI capable of taking on the smartest humans.

Additionally, if you were a dedicated player in Diablo 2 with lots of time on your hands, passable gear was not that difficult to obtain. The perfectly rolled items were disgustingly expensive, but to actually build something you could have fun with was not that hard at all. And that's why enough people kept playing the game for years.

Also, I've seen people as recent as two years ago play the ladder race on reset very aggressively. You say that one goal is more meaningful than the other, when in fact almost everything in Diablo 2 could equally be considered a colossal waste of time. Like, what utility did having the top items in the game serve other than to establish that you owned trophy items? If you didn't PvP and didn't care about levelling, then what was the point of acquiring resources? I think you and I both know the answer to that - people amazingly find amusement doing seemingly nonsensical things.

[Karamo]

"While you're at it, show me these ladder runners that did not bot. Newsflash: They all did."

Shavena
GryM-Mannen
Gigalos
GryM-Spine
JawZ
JimLizard

etc etc etc

[pulli]

Who cares about the top ladder anyways.. A ladder is amazingly fun when you have a small "competition" between friends; for something global it is just terrible.