List of Un-Addressed Issues in 1.0.4 Preview

[torand]

Firstly, let me say that I think some of the changes look amazing, I just think they missed some things, and while I am glad they are changing vision quest (Because spamming CDs is stupid), the net result is a nerf to most builds mana regen which I think is unfortunate. Let me also say that clearly the preview doesn't address everything they are changing, so maybe they already know some of these things.

• Mana Costs: I actually think it would be a better idea to fix the mana costs of spells than to play with the base mana regen. The problem with increasing base mana regen as a solution to this is that it devalues static mana regen (On Gear, Spiritual Attunement). Suddenly 5 mana regen a second is no longer a 25% increase, it is now like a 12% increase. Lastly, the more you buff mana regen, the closer Witch Doctors come to just being Wizards. Having a large resource pool that regenerates slowly so you have to manage resources over time is interesting. Having a large resource pool that regenerates quickly is Arcane Power just with bigger numbers...

• More Mana Costs: Mana costs currently seem to have been decided completely randomly, with no reflection given to more mana = more power. When deciding on a mana cost, how long you would have to wait beetween casts because of regen should be considered. You have spells like acid rain which cost 172 mana (Let's ignore the dismal damage for that cost, because they said they were buffing it); even with the regen change, this still takes over 3 seconds to recoup the mana from if you are doing absolutely nothing else. I don't think I need to point out that standing (Or running) around for 3 seconds is NOT FUN, but I will anyway . This would be fine if during these 3 seconds of mana regen, WDs could just spam primaries...

• Primary Mana Cost: This brings me to another point regarding WD mana. WD are the ONLY class that doesn't have free spells (Not including runed Plague of Toads), so we can't spam primaries while waiting for that mana to regen. I don't mind them trying to make this primary mana cost an interesting distinctive trait of the WD, but I have trouble believing that is the case when our arguably most powerful primary is one of the lower costing ones (Poison Darts), and our there are primaries that even with the new higher regen cannot be spammed without running out of mana. In order to make mana costs on primaries interesting rather than a pain, even the most expensive ones need to be spammable at the highest attacks speeds (Without Pierce The Viel) without running out of mana. The mana costs also need to be proportional to power level, or it just makes the mis-balanced costs un-usable.

• Unusable Skills: They have talked about buffing damage on skills, so I will avoid all of those. There are still some WD skills (Or Runes of skills) that are almost unusable for reasons other than damage, that do not seem to have been acknowledged or addressed. Locust Swarm is a really cool concept, fits WDs really well, but falls really short where targeting is concerned. It has a super short range, is blocked by other enemies/obstacles (Which makes no sense for a swarm of insects) in the way, and is really hard to see if an enemy is effected by it. I really want to use this skill, it is just too frustrating in its current incarnation. Wall of Zombies is another awesome concept for a skill that I wish was usable. 5 second duration, 25 second cooldown? I understand that it can't be like grasp of the dead where it can be up permanently because you could trap monsters, and it can't last too long for the same reason. 5 second duration, 10 second cooldown would make this spell usable and not really ab-usable (Maybe with Grave Injustice, but no more worse than crit mass/frost nova). Mass Confusion: Diablo 2 had Assasin's Mind Blast which was this but spammable and not really broken. This ability with a 60 second cooldown is worthless IMO. Drop the cooldown, make it not effect elites/bosses/champions (Don't know if it does currently, can't bring myself to use it long enough).

• Passives: There is some room for work here IMO. Fetish Sycophants needs a higher proc rate, and perhaps a mechanic change so it doesn't massively favor fast one-handers. Grave Injustice needs a rework just because it is only good right now against the easiest fights where you are killing quickly. I don't want to see it just become critical mass, but perhaps increase its power by about 3-4x and make it proc on picking up a health globe instead of kills? Something to make it useful against elites/bosses and make it worth one of your 3 precious passive slots (It already requires a gear change to get gold pickup range). Spiritual Attunement just sucks, especially with the base mana regen change. A simple number increase could probably fix it, but not really make it interesting...

• Spirit Walk: The problem with this skill is balance. It is worse than diamond skin, it is worse than Smoke Screen, and it is WAY worse than Serenity. I like that your body stays there because if feels very Witch Doctory, but it also massively lowers the power of the skill. It has all of the negatives of the afore mentioned skills: Damage limited, Short Duration, and Long cooldown. It has none of the benefits that counteract these weaknesses though: Long Duration, No Cooldown, No Damage Cap. I think the easiest (Least changes) way to balance it is to remove the damage makes you pop out mechanic. Let your body stay there for flavor, but no amount of damage would actually pop you out.

Despite my huge rant, I actually like the direction that things are going with pets, and changing the mechanics of vision quest. I am worried though, because I really want to play my Witch Doctor, but they are by far the worst class currently IMO (After having played all the classes at 60), and I think the vision quest nerf has the potential to make them worse (Perhaps more fun, but still worse) even with all the other fixes. I think the design for Witch Doctors could result in the most viable builds of any class, but random mana costs, expensive primaries, worthless pets, and unusable skills need to all be fixed for that to happen.

[Karth]

This is why I don't make many long, well-thought-out posts about game mechanics: someone else will eventually say it for me. I think I agree with pretty much everything you've said here.

[torand]

This is why I don't make many long, well-thought-out posts about game mechanics: someone else will eventually say it for me. I think I agree with pretty much everything you've said here.

Hehe . I might have been bored at work...

[flint]

I think you're way off on Spirit Walk. None of those skills have the package of invincible/faster run/break CC effects that Spirit Walk does. I wouldn't change it for any other escape skill in the game right now. Other than that I think you bring up all good points, and I especially hope they change up the passives. You know what I think are the most fun passives in the Diablo 3? The ones that have you playing a different game than everyone else, like Critical Mass or the old Vision Quest. Getting a boost to mana regen is useful but you're still just doing the same old thing, only now with more mana regen. Getting a huge boost when you go balls out with four skills on cooldown is tense and powerful and has completely altered the way you play the game. Gruesome Feast is nearly there but the lack of whites during boss fights means it will never be that good. Grave Injustice, Fetish Sycophants, Zombie Handler, and Fierce Loyalty all have the ability to do this but just aren't quite strong enough right now. Hopefully the next patch will give us a few new ways to play.

[Doctor Clock]

Locust Swarm is a really cool concept, fits WDs really well, but falls really short where targeting is concerned. It has a super short range, is blocked by other enemies/obstacles

Are you sure about it being blocked by obstacles? I regularly cast Locust Swarm through Waller walls.

Wall of Zombies is another awesome concept for a skill that I wish was usable.

Most Splinters kite builds I've seen use this skill.

Mass Confusion: Diablo 2 had Assasin's Mind Blast which was this but spammable and not really broken. This ability with a 60 second cooldown is worthless IMO. Drop the cooldown, make it not effect elites/bosses/champions (Don't know if it does currently, can't bring myself to use it long enough).

Mind Blast absolutely is broken. Most CC abilities in D2 are broken because they don't have a cool down and you can just perma-stun enemies while your Insight/Treachery merc kills them for you. I used Mass Confusion all through Inferno. It works well and did what I expected the skill would do. I actually prefer it to Horrify because the duration is longer and makes the fight stay a bit more predictable.

[torand]

I think you're way off on Spirit Walk. None of those skills have the package of invincible/faster run/break CC effects that Spirit Walk does. I wouldn't change it for any other escape skill in the game right now.

Smoke Screen does all of that without a cooldown, and you are actually invincible (Not invincible for a certain amount of damage). Technically the base skill doesn't have the movement speed, but either a rune, or a passive for DH both add it. None of them are exactly the same, and in the end it is a matter of preference. If you enjoy Spirit Walk the most, I am not one to tell you that you are wrong .

[Karth]

Actually, unruned smoke screen gives 15% movement speed, and you can get 75% movement speed with it (not to mention 60% with Vault and Evasive Fire) if you invest in the Tactical Advantage passive.

[magicrectangle]

• Spirit Walk: The problem with this skill is balance. It is worse than diamond skin, it is worse than Smoke Screen, and it is WAY worse than Serenity. I like that your body stays there because if feels very Witch Doctory, but it also massively lowers the power of the skill. It has all of the negatives of the afore mentioned skills: Damage limited, Short Duration, and Long cooldown. It has none of the benefits that counteract these weaknesses though: Long Duration, No Cooldown, No Damage Cap. I think the easiest (Least changes) way to balance it is to remove the damage makes you pop out mechanic. Let your body stay there for flavor, but no amount of damage would actually pop you out.

Having played every class to 60 except for DH, I can say you're dead wrong about diamond skin. Spirit walk is way, way way way better than diamond skin. The only thing that makes diamond skin good is the critical mass build. All it does is absorb some damage. In order to approximate the functionality of spirit walk a wiz has to use two skills: diamond skin + teleport. Spirit walk is an escape skill, after all.

Serenity is better in some ways, and worse in other ways, than spirit walk - and when you think about them in terms of their role, it makes sense. Serenity is a life saving skill on a melee class. You pop it when incoming damage is too high, and it lets you heal to full or whatever. Serenity has a longer cooldown, but also a longer duration, and unlimited damage absorption. On the other hand, spirit walk has a shorter cooldown, shorter duration, and limited damage absorption - but it gives you a bonus to movement speed, and lets you pass right through monsters - which serenity doesn't even approximate. That's because spirit walk is an escape skill, and serenity isn't.

Smoke screen I haven't used because I haven't played a DH, but I'll grant that it is quite good.

You can't draw simple lines and say "this does the same thing as this, but it is weaker, therefor my class is broken" without accounting for other variables. For example, spirit vessel. Spirit vessel is by far the best cheat death ability in the game. Unstable anomaly? Worthless. You just proceed to die anyway right after knocking stuff back. Relentless you can just get one-shot straight through. Near Death Experience will stop you getting killed by any one hit, but won't get you out of the bad situation that likely brought that deathblow on. Spirit vessel is fscking amazing, it is the only one that gets you out of a bad situation. (My WD is hardcore so believe me, spirit vessel is pure win)

Now there's lots of things that could use fixing in the WD class balance wise, but spirit walk is very, very good, and doesn't need fixing. You just don't use it the same way you use serenity. Making direct comparisons between class skills can be done, but it is tricky because there are a lot of variables - namely it is okay for one class to have a better skill for role X if the other class has a better skill for role Y.

Is smoke screen better than spirit walk? Lets say yes. But to spite that, no demon hunter has solo cleared inferno in hardcore, and witch doctors have. So clearly having a good escape skill isn't the end of the story.

I do agree with a lot of your other points though.

[torand]

Are you sure about it being blocked by obstacles? I regularly cast Locust Swarm through Waller walls.

I have not tried through waller walls actually, I meant like trees in Act 1 and other doodads which I have had Elemental Arrow go through on my DH. Really I think going through obstacles is less important than going through other monsters and a range boost.

Most Splinters kite builds I've seen use this skill.

I have not run across these builds. Does this build just rotate different CCs or something? Perhaps it has its usefulness, I had just not found it .

Mind Blast absolutely is broken. Most CC abilities in D2 are broken because they don't have a cool down and you can just perma-stun enemies while your Insight/Treachery merc kills them for you. I used Mass Confusion all through Inferno. It works well and did what I expected the skill would do. I actually prefer it to Horrify because the duration is longer and makes the fight stay a bit more predictable.

Fair enough I suppose. I qualify something that breaks or trivializes the game as broken, and I never thought Mind Blast did either of those things. Perhaps no cooldown is a bit extreme, but 60 seconds just seems WAY too long. There are abilities worth taking even with long cooldowns in the game, but they are things like Wrath of the Berserker and Archon. This thing has half the cooldown of Wrath of the Berserker with nowhere near half the power.

[torand]

Having played every class to 60 except for DH, I can say you're dead wrong about diamond skin. Spirit walk is way, way way way better than diamond skin. The only thing that makes diamond skin good is the critical mass build. All it does is absorb some damage. In order to approximate the functionality of spirit walk a wiz has to use two skills: diamond skin + teleport. Spirit walk is an escape skill, after all.

Serenity is better in some ways, and worse in other ways, than spirit walk - and when you think about them in terms of their role, it makes sense. Serenity is a life saving skill on a melee class. You pop it when incoming damage is too high, and it lets you heal to full or whatever. Serenity has a longer cooldown, but also a longer duration, and unlimited damage absorption. On the other hand, spirit walk has a shorter cooldown, shorter duration, and limited damage absorption - but it gives you a bonus to movement speed, and lets you pass right through monsters - which serenity doesn't even approximate. That's because spirit walk is an escape skill, and serenity isn't.

Smoke screen I haven't used because I haven't played a DH, but I'll grant that it is quite good.

You can't draw simple lines and say "this does the same thing as this, but it is weaker, therefor my class is broken" without accounting for other variables. For example, spirit vessel. Spirit vessel is by far the best cheat death ability in the game. Unstable anomaly? Worthless. You just proceed to die anyway right after knocking stuff back. Relentless you can just get one-shot straight through. Near Death Experience will stop you getting killed by any one hit, but won't get you out of the bad situation that likely brought that deathblow on. Spirit vessel is fscking amazing, it is the only one that gets you out of a bad situation. (My WD is hardcore so believe me, spirit vessel is pure win)

Now there's lots of things that could use fixing in the WD class balance wise, but spirit walk is very, very good, and doesn't need fixing. You just don't use it the same way you use serenity. Making direct comparisons between class skills can be done, but it is tricky because there are a lot of variables - namely it is okay for one class to have a better skill for role X if the other class has a better skill for role Y.

Is smoke screen better than spirit walk? Lets say yes. But to spite that, no demon hunter has solo cleared inferno in hardcore, and witch doctors have. So clearly having a good escape skill isn't the end of the story.

I do agree with a lot of your other points though.

They are super hard to compare, as each have their pros and cons. I also will say I don't think I will ever take it out of my build. I just feel there is no reason for it to have the damage limit to be what I would consider in balance with similar skills.

Spirit Vessel is amazing in every way. That is all I really have to say about Spirit Vessel.