Attribute Point Allocation Advice for Summoner/Elementalder=0>

[hotpink]

I just re-installed Diablo after years and years of not playing. I've always been a bigger fan of single player over MP and I've played every class except Druid.

At first when I started I was very confused by the huge difference in skills from summoning/destruction magic/shape shifting. So, before really looking into it, by lv. 5 or so I'd wasted a few skill points by trying out different parts of the skill tree. However, now I've reached lv. 25 and am 25% of the way through Act III on Normal. I've been playing a few days.

I've been researching all of the different builds online, but it doesn't seem like there's a build that resembles mine that much at all, which I kind of like, because I find it kind of boring to follow a map of someone elses (no offence.....)
I've only wasted 1 point in the shapeshifting skill tree and am sinking all of my skill points into the summons + fire elements. Only 1 point in Poison Creeper and Carrion Vine, the rest split between Spirit, Dire and Oak Sage. For fire, I'm using mostly Molten Boulder. My Merc. is the first one I got from Act I after defeating Blood Raven and she is now at lv. 22 and I've got her bow/etc mad tricked out - she slays. Lots of what I've read has encouraged to hire Act II or Act III mercs, and perhaps I will but she hasn't died yet, so I don't see a problem.

My strategy of attack is usually letting my wolves + merc get in there and then I go bowling with the MB. My equipment is nothing to write home about, but as of right now I'm using a gemmed military pick that deals about 100 in poison over 4 secs. The problem I'm encountering is that most builds I've looked at which resemble mine have the Druid using a ranged weapon, whereas I prefer melee. I usually drop a few fire boulders(occasionally using fissure, but prefer boulder) and then hack and slash away with my wolves. So there isn't must advice I've found online about how I should be beefing up my character tailored to my style of combat. Lots of what I've been reading has been contradictory - i.e don't put points in energy/strength/dex/etc. and to be honest, I haven't got a clue. Also, at this point my summon to elem skill ratio is like 8:2, so usually a "hunter" or "zookeeper" build would be using a ranged weapon.

I've sank the maj. of my points into Str. and Dex. with occassional boosts to Vit. and Energ. but I can't help feeling like I should be focusing on one attribute heavier to prepare myself for Act IV and V and then NM and Hell. What would you guys suggest? Sorry this post was quite long, but I have looked around a lot on the web since I started making this character and there isn't much in terms of one that resembles mine... there are summ/elem druids, but rarely/none that I've seen which engage fully in melee combat.

Last point - I killed Duriel in one shot at lv. 21 in under a minute, which I'd never been able to do before with any character class, so I don't feel like I've been going about things the wrong way - just less conventional than the traditional builds.

thanks.

[Mrjones]

Vit that should be where most of your points go. You should have just enough str and dex to equip items.

[Swamigoon]

Hang in there! When you master your own unique playstyle, post your own guide so we can see how you did it, okay? Some random suggestions:

1- Be on the lookout for +life equipment and charms. Alternatively, shapeshift, and spend more points into Lycanthropy in order to boost your red bulb. Other related equipment mods, such as resistances and damage reduction, are essential for slowing the rates at which your red bulb leaks. Druids only get two hit points per vitality stat point, like necromancers and sorceresses, so be stingy about stat points spent in strength and dexterity. This is also why many druid players that don't shapeshift choose a ranged weapon - fewer hit points means trying not to get too close to the hurty-meanies.

2- If you really want to go for melee with a druid, shapeshift. If you really want to go for a non-shapeshifting melee druid, practice lots of defensive tactics - hit and run, divide and conquer, bait and flank, and of course, drinking enough potions that the 1, 2, 3, and 4 keys (or whatever you use instead) on your keyboard start to look well faded and worn. Even if you spend more in dexterity so that you hit more often than you miss when you swing your weapon, spend lots more in vitality.

3- Be on the lookout for fire/lightning/cold/magic damage on equipment and charms. Your dire wolves, grizzly (plan now to max both of those) and molten boulder all do only regular physical damage, and as the game progresses you will start finding some foes that are "immune to physical," which means they'll take no damage at all from your pets, and only a little fire damage from your bowling balls. You'll need lots of some other kind of damage to kill those. In hell difficulty, many monsters rather impolitely recover their own hit points over time, so you'll probably want some poison, open wounds, and/or prevent monster heal as well to counter those.

4- Assuming Akara already reset your stat and skill points back in Act I: when you get to nightmare difficulty and finish the first quest, take Akara up on her offer to reset your stat and skill points, so that you can fix any point spending that you come to regret, such as the point you feel you wasted in the shapeshift tree, or the points you spent on energy.

5- Continue to be generous to your mercenary. Give her the best hat, shirt, and bow you can afford, and she can usually handle herself pretty well. Most druid summoners like the might-aura desert mercenary from nightmare difficulty because his aura can almost double his own and your furry pets' physical damage, but if you don't like him, you can always go back to normal Act I and re-hire that flirty rogue merc.

[hotpink]

I wrote what was intended to be a short update on my character and asking for information… but it quickly morphed into something else, haha. I needed some information about how I should develop the character, but I decided to wait to post for a couple days and I think I managed to figure some things out on my own.
If anyone’s interested in seeing the development of a novice Summoner/Elemental Druid, then read on. If not that interested, I’ll try to bold the important parts that I’d like feedback on so you can skim:
From my first update:
Thanks for the advice so far. Here's an update a little further down the line - which, unfortunately is a little less optimistic than last.
I'm almost too embarrassed to post character stats because I feel like I've somehow screwed myself beyond salvage. Hopefully that isn't the case, cause it's getting pretty fun.

"Kuma" (ironic, considering I completely ignored the shapeshift tree)
Nightmare Act II Elem/Summon Druid.
Lv. 43
(not sure about base stats. This is including increases to stats by charms and gear)

Str. 104
Dex. 67
Vit. 110
Eng. 48
Attack Rating: 555
Def. 294
C2B: 24% (so embarrassing)
Life: 357 (I have no idea how much my life goes up with Heart of Oak since it doesn't appear on my screen. Right now it's at +50percent which I guess would make my life around 550? Regardless, my red bulb says 357 regardless of whether the HoO is cast or not. Kind of annoying)

Gear:
I actually used a superior 3-gemmed military pick until halfway through Act I of Nightmare which I'd made during Act II of Normal. I was always on the lookout for a better weapon but nothing materialized. I think it had one flawless emerald and two flawed and did about 100 damage over 5 seconds.
I think I found a field plate with like 70% enhanced defense in Act IV that I used until I found an Armageddon Coat. I switched to that, but after literally finding only 1-2 usable items for the entire game and not a single rune above El or Eld I read a thread about increasing my MF percentage so I gave Armageddon Coat to my merc. and made a 4-gemmed gothic Plate. My gear is pathetic, and my Character is incredibly weak. I think you hit your second point right on the head - I've had to develop some pretty unique battle strategy to stay alive because I do very little physical damage (about 150 over time - maybe only like 45-ish without elemental) and I get injured quickly. However, I'd say that it does make it a bit more fun strategically.

Sword: Rune Cleaver
7-14 Base
+93 Attack Rating
1-4 Cold
150 Poison over 6 seconds
Fire Resit + 6
Lv 2. Bash (25 Charges)

Shield: Gemmed Bone Shield
Def. 28
Attacker takes dmg of 32

Armor: Gemmed Gothic Plate
Def. 132
Ort + Tal + Perf. Taz + Flawless Taz
Lightning resist: 30
Poison Resist: 30
44% MF

My rings and amulet do random effects that aren't that special. I've learned from another post about constantly gambling for rings (of all the years I've played, I never gambled, so this is new) and amulets to try and upgrade them thru the cube but it's expensive. Nothing substantial yet. In addition, I'm wearing Antlers that do next to nothing. I had a set in early Act I that added three to MB which I got rid of for one that adds to Heart of Wolverine and Twister (still early enough to be tempted to switch to Wind Magic) and I don't use either of them and I've been kicking myself ever since. Antlers and Falcon Helmets have dropped, in total, maybe 8 times for the entire game and 80% of those had 0 effects added to them... plus no merchants have offered any Druid Enhancing gear for the duration of the game. It's such a piss-off to see awesome staves, wands, and maces offered a plenty with nothing really conducive to my needs.

Skill Tree:
I wasted a few points in the beginning on Raven, Werewolf and Arctic Blast, and had to waste more on the wind branch to activate Armageddon. in retrospect I should have foregone Werewolf, Armageddon, the point in Raven and A.B and added the rest into MB and Volcano. Especially when those skills are in dire need of support.

Elemental:
Firestorm: 1
Arctic Blast: 1
Twister: 1
Tornado: 1
Hurricane: 1
Molten Boulder: 6
Fissure: 1
Volcano: 2
Armageddon: 4

Shapeshifting:
Werewolf : 1


Summon:
Raven: 2
Poison Creeper: 1
Carrion Vine: 1
Heart of Oak: 5
Spirit Wolf: 5
Dire Wolf: 9
Grizzley: 5

Merc: It was a bittersweet goodbye for Blaise, my first Merc in Act V when I opted for Hoku the Barb. She did decent damage and only died once. I think I let her go around my Lv. 29 when she was Lv. 30.
Hoku is now at Lv 42. He does around 300 damage with a unique Bastard Sword. He's excellent for questing but next to useless for boss fights - he's dead within seconds. I'm kind of at a stalemate because I could get rid of him now for a NM Act. 2 merc at a much lower level (36-38 I think) but I like having someone in the fray during regular combat and he deals WAY more damage than I do.

General Strategy:

Up until the end of Normal I was sinking about 90% of my skill points into the summon tree. However, while Diablo was a pain, Baal completely mopped the floor with me. It took a good 35 minutes to best him. Heart of Oak gets destroyed within about 1.5 seconds of any boss fight, so it was no use, plus every time my grizz would get close to Baal he just used that blue arrow thing and knocked him back. It took forever. I am not looking forward to facing him again anytime soon. I believe I defeated him before lv. 35, but I don't remember exactly.

After my experience with Act IV and V in Normal I started focusing the majority of my time understanding and developing the elemental tree, in particular the fire section. I do have this fear gnawing at me in the back of my head that eventually I'll have wished I'd used wind magic, but honestly from what I can tell, it's really not my style. I considered switching to wind after having to put a point into Tornado, Twister and Hurricane, but after trying them out I was more satisfied with fire magic.

From my point allocation you can see that I favor Molten Boulder and Armageddon, and occasionally I'll use Volcano for something more tactical. If it's a wide area of battlefield I will send the wolves and my merc in, cast Armageddon and circle the crowd giving cover until I can isolate the more powerful/unique monsters. Once I find them, I summon a Grizz next to them and run back to the lesser creatures and progressively isolate them using Molten Boulder's knockback effect. In terms of melee damage it seems like I hardly do anything... which is really annoying and kind of pathetic. However, launching countless boulders on multiple targets I can spread them out and eliminate them pretty quickly. However, this method is particularly difficult with large monsters or ones who move a lot, as they can avoid the knockback effect. Assuming Carrion Vine and Heart of Oak aren't being targeted, the life of my Merc and my Grizz usually never gets below the green, but when they do it's no problem because they are easily recast and also distract a couple targets. It's a tedious method of combat, but for a Lv 43 druid with numerous wasted skill and attribute points making his way through Nightmare I feel like it works. I have been waiting for better weaponry for a long time now though and I'm going a bit nuts.


Issues:

I am in desperate need of better gear. I am always, always, always on the lookout for better things and I've done runs on lesser bosses that don't take too much time to kill but they never drop anything worthwhile which is why I tried to add some % into MF. I never get runes and I've upgraded the ones I have but the highest I've gotten are a couple Amns and I just go my first Io. I'm choking on useless runes.

I'm not doing that much damage. I have to depend on my tanks (Grizz and Merc) to do most of the work while I do my best to line them up using magic. The boulder takes care of most small characters quite easily.

I am pretty worried about the end of Act II. Before I take on Duriel, what is the best method you'd suggest I move forward with?
With getting rid of much better defensive gear for MF% I'm actually quite a bit weaker. I'm not sure if I've made a mistake, but realistically I need to do whatever I can to get better stuff cause what I have isn't cutting it.
Although, since my style of combat favors lots of running, I figure high defense doesn't matter anyway.

I have never used ATMA and I think I'm running 1.12 ... I don't remember anything about Akara resetting my skills... do you need a patch for that?

I've been upping my Str. in preparation for a better weapon and abandoned Dex (which I was boosting early on) for Vitality. Is my Str. high enough now to start boosting Dex again? I've never really used a bow before, but maybe it would be worth it for me to switch?
***
Between writing the first half of this and the last I decided to test myself and had another go with all of the major bosses in Normal (minus Baal) to see how I’d fare and they proved to be much easier than I thought. I can clear The Council and Mephisto in minutes. I’ve also done about 5 Countess runs on Nightmare and that proves to be pretty easy, fun, and the increase in MF has lead me to some gear and semi-decent runes

As of right now, Kuma is Lv. 48 and dominating. The difference between what I wrote a few days ago and now is pretty huge.

Ill post some accurate stats sometime later, but I will saw that switching my gear to increase my MF was a good idea. Literally after I’d written that I wasn’t getting any good runes, I ended up getting a few. I also have managed to find a better ring, better antlers and various other items. Most importantly I made my first runeword and switched the above weapon with Malice. It’s worth about 10,000 less gold and the stats look worse on my character window but the improvement in battle is instantly noticeable. It’s one of the worse Runewords, but for this class it’s like having Leaf for a sorceress. I haven’t gotten rid of the other one though, just added it to my switch in case I change my mind.
I also found an amazing unique set of throwing knives but found that ranged combat is definitely not well suited for this character… therefore I highly doubt I’ll switch to a bow.

My battle strategy has changed from using MB about 90% of the time to using it about 20% of the time with Armageddon on constant. In Normal, MB is much more useful, especially during Act II in the tombs and Arcane Santuary… however, as Armageddon improves, it’s actually more useful in narrow corridors than MB is because the spray will automatically focus on one area. Combined with switching to Malice, I deal -100 to defence per hit, cause Open Wounds, prevent healing and also get 5 health per hit – so they get mowed down by Armageddon and my Grizz pretty quick. Right now my Armageddon is doing between 350-450 damage (per hit/second). While I used to run into battle for only quick slashes to add poison, I now lead my merc and Grizz into battle and later drop back to facilitate their success.

I just got through Arcane Santuary and it was pretty easy. Although the Temples in Act II are my least favorite battleground, I’m going to try to clear them all before taking Duriel. While that is normally how I’d go about it, I didn’t do that for Normal.

Also, I have abandoned using Dire Wolves almost completely. This class favors focusing all your attention on working to assist your merc and grizz. I’m also more confident with having a barbarian for a merc. The weapons he uses are the most compatible with my Druid, so you can exchange/share/try out different combinations. The Grizz and the Barbarian compliment each other nicely; each makes up for the other’s Dmg+Speed/Vitality.

Appx points/skills:
St: 100
Dex: 75
Vit: 125
Energ: 48

Armageddon: +5 (9)

My strategy moving forward is to increase Str. Dex. And Vit. So they stay relatively at the same difference where they’re at. Molten Boulder has become a bit of a write-off at this point. The points synergize my Armageddon so they’re not wasted, but going forward I’m planning to focus the rest of my points into Grizzley, Heart of Oak and Armageddon. I’ve been tempted to also bump up Volcano a bit, but we’ll see.


Can you suggest different types of runs for gear/runes + levelling? And
Can I patch the program so that Akara will rest my stats by Hell?
Am I crazy for not using ATMA?

From what I’ve seen on these forums and throughout the net, this class of Druid is not popular. Most people go for the Shapeshifting tree and Elemental tree to make a powerful warrior. This particular style of Druid focuses on developing your skills to compliment your 3 units (yourself, your merc and your grizz). I’d be really interested to read about another’s experience creating this kind of build. There’s loads of room for improvement, but it’s been pretty fun so far.

Thanks for reading.

[hotpink]

(I realized I was calling Oak Sage "Heart of Oak"... haha....)

Further update:

Kuma: 52

Str: 100
Dex: 75
Vit: 145
Eng: 43

Life: 475* (plus Oak Sage?)
Mana: 173

Attack: 116-200 (Poison+Cold dmg)
Armageddon: 479-636 per hit / per sec

All res. are between 40-60 on NM.

Highest Rune Drops:
Io, Dol, Fal (1 of each).

Changes in Equip:
I've found better, but for right now I'm stickingwith Eagle Brow, a circlet. I'll hold on to this until I get a decent runeword helm. I've picked up some helms with around 80-100 def + some small magical abilities, but I'm oddly attached to this.

Def: 28
83 Atck Rating
8-23 Cold
+5 min damage.

Contrary to what I wrote earlier, I decided to take on Duriel after clearing only 1 tomb and it was a cakewalk - took 5-10 minutes max, at Lv. 49. I used one town portal toward the end of the fight only to stock back up on some potions. Strategy is basically recasting Oak Sage and Grizz as needed and dashing in from behind with Malice, to give a few hits, knock down defense and prevent healing. Also, unless things are looking dire, I'm constantly maneuvering to make the most out of Armageddon (which I've grown to be kind of proficient with).

-Progress has slowed a little, since I generally try to do a couple boss runs between quests to try my luck. Any boss on Normal, including Baal is way too easy to enjoy with very little payoff in terms of drops. NM Arcane Sanctuary round 2 was excellent and I would gather than between 49-55 you could probably get 1 full level just by clearing out the whole place... I did round 2 as soon as I hit 50 and I was at 51 before finishing. If I learned anything from this experience, it's that anyone who tells you to wait till 45 to enter Nightmare is a moron (I say that with love, of course)... I took out Mephisto, the Council, The Ancients, Nil, Diablo and Baal all on normal in one go, and my experience bar hardly budged compared to almost a level per run on NM mode.

- After checking out other characters around the same level, I can say that this is sort of a Frankenstein class. You're not going to get powerful magic, summons or physical attack with this guy, and the battles take a bit longer, but done correctly and it can be both fun and formidable. Not sure how it would fare PVP... if that's your cup of tea, then an investment in Fissure is probably best. I've neglected Fissure completely.

- I'm tempted to get an Ice Mage, but I'll probably stick with Hoku.

[Scoobydoo]

I have some experience in Druid builds and played a couple of them in the various Ladder seasons and on Single Player. However, building one from scratch and untweaked is gonna be a challenge no matter how you look at it, especially if you do not have RWM or ATMA for extra storage space.

A melee druid summoner usually takes the form of Werewolf or Werebear in addition to your summons. This variation usually requires at least a descent weapon for it to work well, since your summons will act as crowd control as your character takes the mobs down at his own pace. The Werewolf variant goes with Fury attack skill and summons for support. The Werebear variant goes with Shockwave for mass stun and crowd control while your summons nibble away at the mobs till they drop. The only shortcoming of either of the above variants are that you will likely be stumped when facing physical immunes.

A Ranger druid goes with a ranged weapon, usually a bow/xbow like Witchwild String for the amp dmg curse proc, resist, and sockets, Harmony/Faith runewords for their aura benefits and elemental dmg. It's a fun little build that can work without having "great" weapon to start with, by going about it from a summoner first, and possibly some fire skills like fissure, molten boulder and volcano. This build attacks from a distance, and with your summons out and about, it is quite a safe build, and can be hell viable since you do not rely on one type of dmg to handle immunes. Even as a Ranger, you can still supplement your ranged weapon dmg with the occassional fire skill when the situation calls for it. It is an extremely versatile build.

A Fires Summoner is a comparable build, that uses fire skills with primarily bear summon as a tank. The play style is similar to a Ranger druid, and the lack of a ranged weapon does not break your build, but instead relying on what gear you are able to muster to boost your skill points. A white/magical/rare druid pelt can offer additional +skills for some measure of customization. Primary attack skills are fissure, molten boulder, and volcano.

These 3 or 4 build types are what I would recommend if you are still able to steer your current character into their direction. I personally do not recommend using Armageddon skill as it requires quite a fair bit of synergy skill investment, leaving your summons fair weak and possibly not hell viable enough.

My first choice would be a Ranger if you have a suitable bow weapon, and second choice being the Fire Summoner which is less item dependent. As for your merc choice, nothing really beats an Act 2 Holy Freeze merc for defensive play, or an Act 2 Might merc to booster your & your summons melee dmg.

[hotpink]

Going full force with the non-shapeshifting melee druid. Now at 58 in Act V NM. Mephisto and Diablo were both pretty easy. I've been nervous about each boss all through NM, but the hardest parts for me were by far doing the end of Act I and the Durance of Hate in Act III. Other than that, it's been pretty smooth sailing and it's getting pretty fun. It's getting progressively simpler in terms of strategy. Mostly hack and slash now as opposed to running around.

Biggest improvement has been my equipment. Taking a gamble on getting Charsi to imbue a circlet right before taking on Diablo (+17 Dex +18 Energ +40 resistances, +40 Life). I'm pretty sure this circlet will do me for the rest of the game until I manage to get a very good pelt or runeword for a helm which would requires drops several levels above what's dropped for me so far. Still playing without ATMA and 0 mods so I'm not really coming across anything amazing. I also had to completely empty out all my gems below Flawless since I had 0 space left in my trunk, on my player and in my cube. I also was lucky enough to finally stumble across a 3-socket superior Maul where I made a Black and got rid of Malice. Upgrading my circlet and weapon has made my character noticeably more for formidable. (Doing at least dbl my previous damage + knockback and 40% crushing blow).

My strategy has changed from sending my merc + grizz in one direction while I isolate enemies 1-by-1 to leading a full, straightforward assault and slaughtering everything in a wave. With my Vit +60 from before, and +4 levels to Oak Sage, the vitality of my entire party is pretty high and attacking single targets as a group is working extremely well - also, both my Merc and I have poison, cold and lightning damage added. Especially with large groups, Armageddon weakens the back ranks quite a bit by the time we wipe the first couple lines. My Druid, Grizz and Merc (Barb) do a combined damage of about 800-1000 per hit + the odd chance to get hit by Armageddon that's +450-700, so not much has been able to stand up to us as a trio. The major problem is when taking bosses like Baal or Diablo they can eliminate my merc and Grizz quickly by focusing on them. The trick is to constantly have them divide their attention between the 3 of us. I found a ring which gives me 7% Mana Steal and +20 Replenish Mana so I am able to constantly recast Grizz, Oak Sage and Armageddon without ever really seeing a dent in my blue bulb. Biggest challenge are uniques with mana burn and groups of archers.

Grizz, Oak Sage are currently at Lv 10 and Arm is at lv 11.

St. 108
Dex: 88
Vit: 200
Eng: 53

Life: 678 + 75% w/ Oak Sage* (about 1200)
Merc Life: 843 * (1475)
Grizz: 2250 + 75 *(3900)


I'm praying by the time I reach the Countess in Hell mode that I'll be able to find a Mal rune, or have collected enough to make one so I can get the Druid Unique armor - Rain. Until then I'm stuck with the relatively **** gemmed gothic plate I've had since ACT II. I think I'm more-or-less finished with the "Treasure Hunting" phase of the game, and with the decreased running I'm mostly holding out for a better plate, gloves and boots. I'm also pretty worried about encountering the physical immunities, but I'll find a way around that.

[Scoobydoo]

Still playing without ATMA and 0 mods so I'm not really coming across anything amazing. I also had to completely empty out all my gems below Flawless since I had 0 space left in my trunk, on my player and in my cube.

That is always the problem when playing without ATMA or GoMule's extra stashing slots. I would suggest using any pgems you've managed to collect so far to reroll grand charms dropped from NM Act 3 onwards (not sure if those dropped any earlier can be rolled into skill GCs), to keep clearing inventory space since you aren't likely to use them for anything else.

[QUOTE=hotpink;8426364]I also was lucky enough to finally stumble across a 3-socket superior Maul where I made a Black and got rid of Malice. Upgrading my circlet and weapon has made my character noticeably more for formidable. (Doing at least dbl my previous damage + knockback and 40% crushing blow).
If you have extra runes handy, I would also recommend using a 1handed weapon like a flail (added range and speed) for instance for another Black runeword so you can equip a shield for extra safety and benefits, or consider Honor runeword as an alternative weapon. Rhyme shield is one that definitely comes to mind for block, resist, CBF, and a little MF.

I'm praying by the time I reach the Countess in Hell mode that I'll be able to find a Mal rune, or have collected enough to make one so I can get the Druid Unique armor - Rain. Until then I'm stuck with the relatively **** gemmed gothic plate I've had since ACT II. I think I'm more-or-less finished with the "Treasure Hunting" phase of the game, and with the decreased running I'm mostly holding out for a better plate, gloves and boots. I'm also pretty worried about encountering the physical immunities, but I'll find a way around that.

In the mean time, perhaps you can consider Smoke runeword armor if you are lacking in FHR and resist, or Lionheart runeword which has even nicer mods.