Sharpshooter, I want to not like it but..

[lanceuppercut]

http://diablo.incgamers.com/gallery/...stance_Map.jpg

^^ distances in game visualised, 10 yards isn't too bad. it's practically caltrop/ef backflip distance.. anything but melee can make use of those distances..

[Shadow Hado]

http://diablo.incgamers.com/gallery/...stance_Map.jpg

^^ distances in game visualised, 10 yards isn't too bad. it's practically caltrop/ef backflip distance.. anything but melee can make use of those distances..

Wow. That's a lot closer than I thought.

[lanceuppercut]

a nice ingame visual indicator is that the backflip triggers just outside of caltrop activating distance so estimating a caltrop is 8-9 ingame yards..

[Dethklok]

http://diablo.incgamers.com/gallery/...stance_Map.jpg

Upside: Since 10 meters is less than you thought it was, EF won't trigger unless the enemy is really close.

Downside: Since 15 meters is less than you thought it was, when EF does trigger it won't get you as far away from the monster as you thought, and the monster will soon be very close again.

I think the upside and the downside pretty much cancel each other out. If you go EF you will be doing a significant amount of automatic, discipline-spending mini-vaults. If you like that, go EF; if you don't, don't.

Regarding Sharpshooter itself: I think SS is the kind of passive that gets better and better the harder the fight. I think it's horrible for farming, where waiting around for your crit to get up wastes run efficiency; I think it's a great choice for getting past difficult content, although why get past difficult content if you can't farm it; I think SS will be mandatory on PvP Demon Hunters.

[lanceuppercut]

yeah, but noone with half a brain is going to just stand there after a backflip and fire another attack (albeit with reduced animation time so the 2nd shot is fired much faster) and as long as you're not relying on holding left click all the time, once the backflip happens you would either slap down a caltrop giving yourself more time or run away (with TA) to give yourself more space.

[Nèmein]

yeah, but noone with half a brain is going to just stand there after a backflip and fire another attack (albeit with reduced animation time so the 2nd shot is fired much faster) and as long as you're not relying on holding left click all the time, once the backflip happens you would either slap down a caltrop giving yourself more time or run away (with TA) to give yourself more space.

Yea the automatic space given by a nicely timed auto backflip-->trops--->get away via preferred method (another vault usually for me since I have no +MS yet) might be the defining tactic for a mobile DH who has mastered EF (which I have not). Even with 0 lag/latency issues I don't think it is possible to fire and vault as fast as an auto backflip. And as lance said, it appears that the very next animation is always a bit quicker coming off the EF backflip than vault (might not be true).

although why get past difficult content if you can't farm it

I'm not sure I understand your point here. I'm still fairly positive I can't "farm" Act 1 Hell but if I stayed in Act 4 NM I'm not sure I'd be any closer to beating Act 1 Hell and certainly no closer to farming it.

As far as SS I'm sure it comes down to not just how awesome or not the passive is but what you are giving up in that slot that may benefit you more. If you're a bow hunter perhaps archery is better. If you have a high CC% already perhaps Nightstalker is better for you. Tanking DH? Perhaps Numbing Traps or Custom Engineering are a bigger benefit to you. I think the opportunity cost of SS probably requires little more subtlety than straight math will provide.

[Dethklok]

yeah, but noone with half a brain is going to just stand there after a backflip and fire another attack (albeit with reduced animation time so the 2nd shot is fired much faster) and as long as you're not relying on holding left click all the time, once the backflip happens you would either slap down a caltrop giving yourself more time or run away (with TA) to give yourself more space.

You mean anyone who plays like you do, has TA equipped, and discipline to spare... by the way, 4 points discipline gone from EF.

I'm not sure I understand your point here. I'm still fairly positive I can't "farm" Act 1 Hell but if I stayed in Act 4 NM I'm not sure I'd be any closer to beating Act 1 Hell and certainly no closer to farming it.

For someone who hasn't even cleared Act 1 Hell, you sure do post a lot.

For softcore, the "farming vs clearing" concept isn't really relevant until you hit level 60 and start on Inferno difficulty. Hardcore is a little different because less risks can be taken trying to clear content. And if you're having problems with SC Hell... just save up a little gold and do a search for level 60 weapons with Reduced Level Requirement, you should have zero difficulty afterwards.

[Nèmein]

You mean anyone who plays like you do, has TA equipped, and discipline to spare... by the way, 4 points discipline gone from EF.
For someone who hasn't even cleared Act 1 Hell, you sure do post a lot.

For softcore, the "farming vs clearing" concept isn't really relevant until you hit level 60 and start on Inferno difficulty. Hardcore is a little different because less risks can be taken trying to clear content. And if you're having problems with SC Hell... just save up a little gold and do a search for level 60 weapons with Reduced Level Requirement, you should have zero difficulty afterwards.

Veiled jabs aside, I'm playing selffound so saving up gold and using the AH is not in my gameplan. I asked the question because I did not understand your point about "farming vs clearing" and wanted to be able to follow any further discussion on the matter. I still don't. Are you suggesting that it's foolhardy to attempt to clear...say Act 3 Inferno until you can farm Act 2?

This is geniune interest not an attempt at post count inflation.

addendum: I'll ask no more on this matter after this as I'm not interested in a thread hijack only clarification.

[Malicious]

Regarding SS, it depends a lot on your build and how u gear your character. If u r using a slow xbow build with not much IAS, then SS is probably more beneficial to u than SA. Or if u have high IAS and use ball lightning as your main hatred spender, then SS is beneficial to u.

I personally can't stand having such low attack speed, so I opt for taking SS out. I also have a full nat's set + I use vault and EF, so I can reposition myself quite easily to take advantage of my SA. Discipline costs are not a problem once u have full nat's.

I still think overall SS is pretty overrated and I hate looking at SS inflated dps numbers because imo it gives a bad impression of a person's real dps... but at the same time I do recognise it's good for certain builds and playstyles.

[Dethklok]

Are you suggesting that it's foolhardy to attempt to clear...say Act 3 Inferno until you can farm Act 2?

Unless you have help or you're running the tank build, yes. Inferno difficulty scales far faster, comparing Act 1 inferno to Act 2 inferno is like comparing Act 1 nightmare to Act 2 Hell. Act 2 in particular is a disaster, the damn snakes and jumping lacuni are invulnerable on approach due to invis/burrowing/leaping and hit like trucks, you could easily farm act 1 elites then go to act 2 and get raped by white mobs.