Hell Skeleton King

[Nèmein]

So I just spent about 2 hours getting taught many lessons by Leoric. It's likely that this is due to a lack of skill (or w/e you wish to call it), but its possible that its a gear/loadout issue also.

Well I'll let you decide

Stats (52 DH)
13.8k Life
2500 Damage


Loadout (Actives + Passives)
EF-Covering
Cluster Arrow-Shooting Stars
EA-Screaming Skull
Prep-Battle Scars
Caltrops-Jagged Spikes
SS-Lingering Fog

Steady Aim
Grenadier
TA

A few words...I ran into an invulnerable minions group early in Act 1 that prompted me to switch from my preferred Razor Disk Chakram to Cluster Arrow (worked great btw). The switch prompted me to pick up a passive to synergize with the aforementioned Cluster Arrow selection. Interestingly, I haven't seen the giant grenade drop one time while dying against...anyone. Whlie it makes little difference I admit I was dissapointed as I was looking forward to telling the filth to bleed on my way out. In any event its been a change of pace and I haven't switch back to my normal loadout.

I'm 2xHXB about 125 DPS each wearing a fairly super crappy Thief's Hood (59 Intel, 3% Life, 9%MF, socket) with a Square Topaz in it now since it seems like I'll be farming Act 1 for a while until either I level up my skills or my gear (both?) or acquire enough mats to go gamble at the smithy again. But perhaps there is something very obvious that I'm missing (L2P is a viable response to this). If there is a thread I've overlooked pertaining to "expected values" feel free to point me in the direction. In the meantime I'll start a WD I'm curious how it plays.

Apologies for length and thanks in advance.



tldr; Hell SK kicking my behind. 13.8k life 2.5k damage no SS passive. Is it my gear or me?

[Virility]

I do not find fault in the way you have set up your skills. Are you over whelmed by the spawned adds? Does Leoric take most of your life with one swing? Are you running out of hatred at the wrong times with nothing left to burst down Leoric? Is there a problem with your disc running out as you dance around the room pecking away at Leoric's health?

[lanceuppercut]

i'm not sure there is a particular need for SS for the SK, his teleport is telegraphed enough and you shouldn't be the in position to get caught out enough to need a emergency SS? In that situation for an escape skill, I'd prefer vault (as you're using TA anyway) for the extra distance over a SS as well as it using less disc.

If you're getting your *** handed to you, stick a purple gem into that helm for a bit of extra +life!

[Nèmein]

I do not find fault in the way you have set up your skills. Are you over whelmed by the spawned adds? Does Leoric take most of your life with one swing? Are you running out of hatred at the wrong times with nothing left to burst down Leoric? Is there a problem with your disc running out as you dance around the room pecking away at Leoric's health?

The adds have been giving me some trouble. I find that the archers are hitting me hard. I'm running 35 disc and am not having too much trouble with it and hatred is good even with Cluster. I'm usually out of heals before I realize it (having burned my prep heal my pot and my templar heal) and dead before I can run away from/burn down enough adds to get a health orb. If Leoric gets the final blow its bc I've lost focus while dancing away from the adds. If I handle the adds better this will go smoother.

i'm not sure there is a particular need for SS for the SK, his teleport is telegraphed enough and you shouldn't be the in position to get caught out enough to need a emergency SS? In that situation for an escape skill, I'd prefer vault (as you're using TA anyway) for the extra distance over a SS as well as it using less disc.

If you're getting your *** handed to you, stick a purple gem into that helm for a bit of extra +life!

Is it my imagination or are you vulnerable during the actual vault? I had always assumed invulnerability during the vault but anecdotally I believe I'm most definitely wrong. I should say that I've always been a vault user (rattling roll or tumble) and am still not super comfortable with the timing of SS (always a bit late...still taking the hit). I feel that is most likely my biggest issue at the moment. It seems that every champ/elite mob I have run into in Hell has had Fast and Mortar affixes. Coupled with suffering in the crypts searching for the crown made me decide to switch to SS.

Also I guess I should admit that I find myself trying to do full runs with one loadout. This, as you might imagine, is due to learning about NV stacks and trying to train myself for that eventuality. Switching in Impale and Vault are probably two very wise decisions..but then my imaginary NV stacks will be gone.

Perhaps Act 1 Hell is a bit too early to be worrying about things such as NV stacks.

I also admit to being a bit hard on myself for sticking with what works instead of trying out new things. I've literally never use Strafe (probably won't), have never tried RoV (looks cool though) and even though I tried to incorporate Spike Traps (which I love btw) as a way to deal with the adds...it just didn't feel right. Since this is a discussion for another time I'll simply end with the conclusion that along with all else that's been stated perhaps my biggest mistake was taking Leoric too lightly since he'd been a breeze in NM and I thought I'd experiment on him.

Thanks for your responses.

[lanceuppercut]

for me, SS doesn't offer enough uptime to warrant that amount of disc usage so all SS gets used for is literally breaking CC, my timing sucks too much to use to protect from damage and I don't trust myself enough in HC to get the timing right every time, as the DH is squishy as hell, I don't intend to get into situations where taking damage during a vault is an option.

+fast things got you down? caltrop/TG is brilliant for making a bit of time whilst you vault/tumble the hell outta there!

in inferno/a1 and I run with:
ef/cf
impale/over pen
caltrop/TG
vault/tumble
SS/lingering
gloom/SP (use prep if you don't have nat's set though)
tac advantage
steady aim
archery

[Nèmein]

I don't intend to get into situations where taking damage during a vault is an option.

+fast things got you down? caltrop/TG is brilliant for making a bit of time whilst you vault/tumble the hell outta there!

You are my idol. I've had this amount of health for some time now and since coming back from playing a barb for a bit I need to get in the mindset of just never being in a perilous position. I kinda joked around a bit in NM because I could but its time to get serious.

In other news, I've been using Jagged for the modest damage but the immobilization is attractive. Will go hunt down some fast packs and see how I do. Then try my hand at the Leoric again.

Thanks.

[Shadow Hado]

Personally, this is what I run in Inferno A1, and other than Impale / Grievous Wounds, I'm pretty sure you have access to all of them.

Hungering Arrow / Devouring Arrow
Elemental Arrow / Ball Lightning
Impale / Grievous Wounds
Preparation / Focused Mind
Vault / Tumble
Smoke Screen / Lingering Fog

Tactical Advantage
Archery
Sharpshooter


Now, I don't know what your gear is, so I can't say whether I recommend something like this or not, but I can tell you that this build fits my playstyle pretty damn well; I personally prefer freedom of movement and "stutterstep" fighting. I think that's a big key to success with DH, and well, all of the chars in D3: making your build fit you. I'm hoping the options for this are increased with the skill changes, but we will see.

Anywho, enough of the tangent, and on to the skills. I would at least suggest swapping Caltrops for Vault / Tumble, and maybe even swapping Screaming Skull for Ball Lightning for the adds. Even if it's for just this fight and you decide to return to your build immediately after. Vault will help you escape his Teleport Slashes for a much lower cost than SS, and Ball Lightning is great at taking out the adds because its "hitbox" is enormous, and the projectiles continue through every enemy they hit.

Other than that, just remember that he always uses his Teleport Slash immediately after the 2nd "Raise Dead" animation, and typically right after he does his "3-Swing Combo." For the adds: focus on archers first if possible, and again remember to stop shooting them and Vault and sprint right after the 2nd group appears. Personally, I pound him with Devouring Arrow until he summons adds, destroy them quickly with Ball Lightning, and repeat.

Hope this helps!

[Vanadin]

If you have Life on Hit, Caltrops/Jagged Spikes becomes a godsend. [In the Arreat Crater, those annoying scorpions become mini-health globes, healing you as they commit suicide. ]

Another thing that helps a lot is finding something with crowd control attributes: I have a belt with 4% chance to freeze, so every so often Leoric just stands there like a fool while I get to take shots at him.

One other note: you might want to check on this: can EF hit the same target three times on one attack? If not, then you're wasting 2/3 of the damage from it.

[lanceuppercut]

You are my idol. I've had this amount of health for some time now and since coming back from playing a barb for a bit I need to get in the mindset of just never being in a perilous position. I kinda joked around a bit in NM because I could but its time to get serious.

In other news, I've been using Jagged for the modest damage but the immobilization is attractive. Will go hunt down some fast packs and see how I do. Then try my hand at the Leoric again.

Thanks.

your gotta get into the mindset of being a squishy class and don't let them get anywhere near you in the first place. TG may seem underwhelming as I did think when changing from JS which I used until A1 inferno but being able to stop 1 thing from hitting you for potentially fatal damage is a godsend.

definitely used more as an escape skill combined with vault if anything, I still don't feel all that comfortable with +fast but it let's me get away from them fairly painlessly.

my skill choices may not seem the best overall but everything has its place or reason to how i play my build so i don't need to adjust much, for example impale looks awful but for me, it's a good way to hurt invulnerable elites (apparently they're gone in 104 anyway) quickly.

also my skills are heavily defensive as I'm playing HC.

[lanceuppercut]

The adds have been giving me some trouble. I find that the archers are hitting me hard. I'm running 35 disc and am not having too much trouble with it and hatred is good even with Cluster. I'm usually out of heals before I realize it (having burned my prep heal my pot and my templar heal) and dead before I can run away from/burn down enough adds to get a health orb. If Leoric gets the final blow its bc I've lost focus while dancing away from the adds. If I handle the adds better this will go smoother.

I've never really had problem with SK's adds, as soon as they appear they get impaled and if more of them are in the firing line, we'll it means that overpenetration has done its job letting me concentrate on the big boss.

I prefer impale as the projectile gets to where it needs to be, quickly. cluster for me, is too expensive on the hatred, slow and limited range. much like shadow hado has posted, I prefer mobility in my DH and always try to keep things at arms length.