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  1. #11
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    It does? Wow, i could've sworn it was 5 seconds, but i'm not doubting you, haven't been playing the game for awhile.
    I don't think it really changes much regarding Maniac though, but maybe comparing to Bash it does. Problem is still that i don't really see the dynamic of Bash, WW/Sprint for max 5 seconds, then Bash again to keep the damage buff up, really working out that well in practise. But maybe i'm wrong and with practise you could perfect that cycle, if you can then i'm guessing that yes, it is worth it to go with Punish instead of atleast Maniac.



  2. #12
    IncGamers Member Coolhwip's Avatar
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    You do more dps by continually whirlwinding and spamming tornadoes. Stopping and trying to hit a single mob every 3-4 seconds will look pretty retarded and it would also mean death if you are playing WW properly which is kiting an entire level worth of mobs and elite packs into an area and kill them all together. At least that's how I've always done it.

    In pugs, I just use bash(instigation) once then sprint ahead of everyone and drag trash forward with me until I find a pack and wait for the rest of them to catch up. As a side effect doing this is a good way to get back at afking leechers hugging the stash hiding in town. They usually wait 'till the rest have cleared some trash to finally come down. The moment they click on my banner they are greeted by a wall of mobs + an elite pack or 2 and they end up having to walk the entire distance and by that time the pack is already dead and since they didnt get a chance to tag it more often than not they get no loot from it.


    Last edited by Coolhwip; 09-08-2012 at 23:23.

  3. #13
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Yeah that's what i argue to, it's difficult to put it into an equation though but it wouldn't surprise me if continuesly whirling/sprinting would outdamage even a 40% increase, just due to the dynamics of it all.
    Also, it was never asked but i'm pretty sure Hurricane with Tornadoes outdamages Volcanic Eruption or Dust Devils with Tornadoes and the more runspeed you have the better.
    edit: AND you get more LoH effectiveness out of it due to how much faster you spawn tornadoes, so that Bloodfunnel also becomes irrelevant.



  4. #14
    IncGamers Member Sentarius's Avatar
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    I tried it out a bit, and I am definitely enjoying it.

    First, I absolutely agree, when I am in WW it doesn't make sense to stop it.

    However, there are two great things about Bash. First, when a pack is down to one or two guys who run around and won't stand in tornadoes, yes I could just Frenzy them, but Bash makes it easier to build up buffs for a whirlwind if I want or to get ready for the next pack. Second, in a similar vein, while Frenzy and Bash both work on destructible objects, the fact that Bash requires fewer hits to generate the same fury and to stack up its (longer lasting) buff actually makes it worthwhile to hit an object here or there en route to a pack.

    Basically, I see the skill/rune as offering a little of everything, jack of all trades if you will:

    Better fury generation than Frenzy, not as good as Instigation.
    Inferior buff stack compared to Maniac, but faster to generate and longer lasting.
    And for those annoying guys who run away and just need a few hits, it has better initial DPS than Frenzy, although not better sustained DPS.

    I can see that Instigation is better if you only ever use your generator to start WW, and Frenzy is better if you plan to do serious single targeting, but Punish is definitely worth checking out.

    Next thing I need to do is test if it can kill Goblins in Act 3 w/out wasting WotB. (Frenzy can.)



  5. #15
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentarius View Post
    Man, working Overpower into a LoH WW build would be amazing. What do you do, just use the WW button to do normal attacks until you have enough fury? No more Goblin killing, but I imagine that only Arcane Sentries could kill me then.
    I really want to get crushing advance into my build, but every time I try it I end up fury starved because I periodically forget to cast battle rage and have no way to get it back up once it drops.



  6. #16
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    I really want to get crushing advance into my build, but every time I try it I end up fury starved because I periodically forget to cast battle rage and have no way to get it back up once it drops.
    It takes a while to train yourself to do that automatically. Just keep practicing!



  7. #17
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    The other thing is when you're down to one target with a small hitbox, even with 51.5% crit, perma-whirl doesn't always work. You can run around them in circles if they're melee, but if they're ranged that doesn't really work very well either. Instigation works, and generates enough fury to keep thrive up too. Frenzy or even other bash runes can't keep thrive up.

    What do crushing advance barbs do against a single ranged enemy? Like say a fallen firemage rare who's minions have all died to your whirling? (or succubus, or blood clan spear thrower). Also what about shielding packs? It seems like it would be really easy to lose battle rage and not be able to get it back up.



  8. #18
    IncGamers Member Sentarius's Avatar
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    Frenzy or even other bash runes can't keep thrive up.
    If you have stacked crit and are using (Into the Fray), any Bash, Cleave, or Frenzy Rune can keep up (Thrive on Chaos).

    On the subject of (Punish) I've decided to go back to Frenzy (Maniac). In Act III I'm definitely finding a lot of firemage and other ranged types that need to be chased down one by one. The reason I decided to go back to Frenzy is actually the attack speed. Higher attack speed = more life on hit. I do like (Punish) though and I might stick with it if I wasn't a life on hit Barb.



  9. #19
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentarius View Post
    If you have stacked crit and are using (Into the Fray), any Bash, Cleave, or Frenzy Rune can keep up (Thrive on Chaos).
    That hasn't been my experience. I'll give it another go though, as trying to pick off running ranged with bash annoys me too.



  10. #20
    IncGamers Member Sentarius's Avatar
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    That hasn't been my experience. I'll give it another go though, as trying to pick off running ranged with bash annoys me too.
    Obviously you have to be burning fury by slamming Sprint and Battle Rage as often as possible.

    And it also depends how much they run. You need them to hold still now and then so you can get solid hits in.



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