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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member Sentarius's Avatar
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    WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Any thoughts on this? When I started WWing I used Bash (Instigation) to quickly get fury up and WWing under way.

    When I switched to DW, I used Frenzy, alternating between (Sidearm), which everyone says is best, and (Maniac), for a boost to WW damage. I like the style of (Maniac) but the timing is tricky.

    Then I noticed Bash (Punish), which I've never read anything about. (Maniac) provides a 20% boost to all DPS after 5 hits and lasts for around a second, but (Punish) gives a 18% boost to all DPS after just 3 hits, and the buff lasts for a full 5 seconds. In addition, Bash generates Fury twice as fast.

    So, assuming I see a pack, pop War Cry and then Battle Rage, and am left with 10 fury, needing 10 more for my first Sprint:

    Bash (Punish): Two hits to get fury for Sprint, including 12% buff, three hits for maximum 18% buff, buff lasts for 5 seconds of WW, max single target DPS of 177%.

    Frenzy (Maniac): Four hits to get fury for Sprint, including 16% buff, five hits for maximum 20% buff, buff lasts for 1 second, max single target DPS of 231%.

    Obviously there's also (Sidearm), which (I think?) has a slightly lower max DPS but doesn't have to ramp up the way (Maniac) does.

    The attack speed bonus of Frenzy, which matters for DPS and also for LoH when using it, doesn't really figure in here since it takes time for it to stack up. Bash (Punish) wouldn't be as good for chasing Goblins or whaling on bosses that are crammed into a corner and can't be WWed easily.

    Sorry for the plodding analysis. I guess the only thing to do is try playing with it. Anyone have any insights?



  2. #2
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Tbh I think both are quite viable and it comes down to your own preferences.

    When I first started the WW barb it was difficult to generate Fury so I did use Bash/Frenzy quite heavily. Now that I am better geared I find that I no longer rely on Bash/Frenzy as much.

    If your Fury generation is good enough, you can even replace Bash/Frenzy with another skill altogether like Overpower. Then again, it depends on your skill build.



  3. #3
    IncGamers Member Sentarius's Avatar
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Man, working Overpower into a LoH WW build would be amazing. What do you do, just use the WW button to do normal attacks until you have enough fury? No more Goblin killing, but I imagine that only Arcane Sentries could kill me then.



  4. #4
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentarius View Post
    Man, working Overpower into a LoH WW build would be amazing. What do you do, just use the WW button to do normal attacks until you have enough fury? No more Goblin killing, but I imagine that only Arcane Sentries could kill me then.
    I use a mighty weapon. Normal attack with whirlwind sometime works but as soon as you have enough fury for one 'attack' with whirlwind (something like 6.x fury) you whirlwind instead of using normal attack and usually burn all your fury this way. With a mighty weapon I just use warcry, sprint around a couple mobs (or one big one) to let the tornados generate fury, then activate battle rage after I have enough. And... yeah, arcane sentries are the only thing that really hurt at that point. You can still kill TGs too but you have to be a bit careful about how you do it.



  5. #5
    IncGamers Member Sentarius's Avatar
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Oh, yeah, good point about WWing. Whoops. Oh well.

    I use an axe for crit and a sword for LoH (self-found, woo!) so a mighty weapon isn't really an option, at least right now.



  6. #6
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    I use instigation rune for my bash .I've tried what other people have done where they substitute bash with overpower which is great however its just not viable against goblins who wont sit in your tornadoes, and you eventully end up wasting time trying to gain fury to try and WW or sprint that the goblin gets away. Maybe if i had 100k dps I could make it viable but not with my 32k dps (running MF runs with 300 mf).



  7. #7
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    If you use Into the Fray (and i'm assuming you do) then i'd use any of the Frenzy variants any day over Bash.
    -Smite when you want to pin down enemies so that they don't run away as much or do asmuch damage to you via normal attacks or special attacks (i see it as a passive offensive and defensive boost due to how many more effective hits you can get in and how many less hits you take, which is the reason why i prefer it)
    -Sidearm when you want pure extra damage, although i don't really see the point except versus goblins and endbosses, and you really shouldn't have any problem with goblins anyway due to how easy it is to catch up to them with Sprint, and endbosses are also best downed with pure Sprint.
    -Maniac when you want to increase damage mainly for WW/Sprint, although i doubt you get much of a real damage boost due to having to refresh it every 5 seconds when it's probably more effective to just keep on Whirling/Sprinting whenever you can.



  8. #8
    IncGamers Member Sentarius's Avatar
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doppel View Post
    -Maniac when you want to increase damage mainly for WW/Sprint, although i doubt you get much of a real damage boost due to having to refresh it every 5 seconds when it's probably more effective to just keep on Whirling/Sprinting whenever you can.
    My understanding is that Maniac has to be refreshed much more often than every 5 seconds. Am I misunderstanding how it works? (This is sort of the point of this thread!)



  9. #9
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    As far as i know you just need to keep Frenzy at max stack of 5 to benefit from the 20% increase in damage, and you need to attack once every 5 seconds to keep it at 5 stacks.
    Theoretically it sounds good, but practically i don't find it to be that useful. If i want to WW/Sprint, i rather WW/Sprint indefinately (fast attack speed, high crit rate) instead of stopping midway to attack a single enemy (which kills the momentum i feel).



  10. #10
    IncGamers Member Sentarius's Avatar
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    Re: WW Barb using Bash (Punish)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doppel View Post
    As far as i know you just need to keep Frenzy at max stack of 5 to benefit from the 20% increase in damage, and you need to attack once every 5 seconds to keep it at 5 stacks.
    Theoretically it sounds good, but practically i don't find it to be that useful. If i want to WW/Sprint, i rather WW/Sprint indefinately (fast attack speed, high crit rate) instead of stopping midway to attack a single enemy (which kills the momentum i feel).
    I just tested it. The Frenzy stacks last for 3 seconds.

    So if Bash buffs last for 5 seconds, is the extra 2 seconds worth the lower DPS?

    I think it might be, because 5 seconds is enough for an entire duration of Sprint, WWing as you go, and leaves you 1.5-2 seconds to land a hit with Bash.



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