Deadly Reach Foresight versus Breath of Heaven Blazing Wrathder=0><

[gakky]

For cyclone builds I see people using either Deadly Reach Foresight or Breath of Heaven Blazing Wrath.
I am using Foresight and wonder why a lot of people are using BoH. My thoughts :

Foresight Pros :
18% damage
Very useful ranged and AOE attack. More flexible and more fun having a second attack type.
Allows TC on RMB allowing auto-attack which will ensure maximum cyclones even under lag, and handles uncloaking units very well. Really good for people like me who play under a high ping.
Doesn't use up spirit to trigger.
No cooldown.

Foresight Cons :
Need an enemy to trigger, and you want to trigger this before casting SW (This is the real issue with Foresight)
If DW and you need to SW off main hand then it is a pain to force a switch after triggering since you probably have to do this during combat.
only lasts 30 seconds.

BoH Pros :
slightly useful 7000 heal
easy to trigger in advance
lasts 45 seconds
Cons :
Only 15% damage.
Costs 25 spirit to cast.
15 second cooldown so you might have to wait to prep it.

Alternatively I thought, you could also use both and ditch Serenity !
For me the biggest decider is the difficulty of triggering Foresight versus having TC on RMB.
Thoughts anyone ?

[windstriker]

Must say, for me the "slightly useful" healing makes all the difference. In some situations (shielding...) LoH doesn't work, and then this healing is extremely useful.
And to ditch Serenity? That wont ever happen! The only skill that can break any CC for a monk. In some situations (nightmarish...) it actually even increases my DPS because without it I would only be running away all the time! So I do strongly advice against ditching serenity, at least until you reach around 10k armor, 1k resists and have a lot -% to crowd control time (which I start to think is a undervalued affix btw, Im soon gonna try skipping transcendence for the passive that makes you take less dmg while CC'd because that may be what makes me never die in the end...)

[gakky]

Yes that's a good point. Shielding you miss out on Spirit and LOH. I have some spirit per second and LPSS, which gives me about the same healing as BoH so it's less of an issue.
I truly wasn't serious about Serenity Sorry I was too subtle maybe.

Thinking about it more I think for me the real decider is just having TC on RMB. Slow computer and high ping it helps a lot, but more importantly in any situation it ensures you have non stop LOH. If I could get TC on RMB with the standard Cyclone build I would use BoH over DR.

[magicrectangle]

Not sure if you're aware, but with a sw:cyclone build, blind:faith in the light is the single largest damage buff you can get. It only needs to be active when you activate sweeping wind, and you will get the extra damage (on cyclones and on the aura damage) for the full duration that SW lasts - not just 3 seconds out of every 15.

[magicrectangle]

Not sure if you're aware, but with a sw:cyclone build, blind:faith in the light is the single largest damage buff you can get (by far). It only needs to be active when you activate sweeping wind, and you will get the extra damage (on cyclones and on the aura damage) for the full duration that SW lasts - not just 3 seconds out of every 15.

That said, one of the big arguments for foresight that you kind of glossed over is dealing with ground poop damage. Assuming your primary attack is thunderclap, molten packs (and other ground poop) can be rather a problem - a problem which having deadly reach as an alternate attack solves nicely.

[gakky]

Not sure if you're aware, but with a sw:cyclone build, blind:faith in the light is the single largest damage buff you can get (by far). It only needs to be active when you activate sweeping wind, and you will get the extra damage (on cyclones and on the aura damage) for the full duration that SW lasts - not just 3 seconds out of every 15.

Yes indeed I know. Not sure how this relates to DR vs BoH ?

That said, one of the big arguments for foresight that you kind of glossed over is dealing with ground poop damage. Assuming your primary attack is thunderclap, molten packs (and other ground poop) can be rather a problem - a problem which having deadly reach as an alternate attack solves nicely.

Yep. DR is really good against molten, plagued, electrical, desecration, and even arcane. Not only can you keep out of range, you have much more available space to attack from.
Also very good for attacking from a choke, it reduces the number of enemies that can attack you.
I think it makes the game more interesting.

Still, my main question was why people are using BoH ? Apart from the heal ?

[windstriker]

Not sure if you're aware, but with a sw:cyclone build, blind:faith in the light is the single largest damage buff you can get. It only needs to be active when you activate sweeping wind, and you will get the extra damage (on cyclones and on the aura damage) for the full duration that SW lasts - not just 3 seconds out of every 15.

Whoa whoa, I did not know that at all! Quite embarrassing, but this will probably come in quite handy!

@Gakky
I guess the fact that it's easier to maintain BoH is also a factor

[gakky]

Whoa whoa, I did not know that at all! Quite embarrassing, but this will probably come in quite handy!

@Gakky
I guess the fact that it's easier to maintain BoH is also a factor

SW works on all buffs. I guess the biggest one would be a frenzy shrine. Try to keep SW up after that as long as possible !
There is an active thread discussing this 'DW w/ heavy main hand for proc damage'. There is a lot more to it than that including main/offhand differences, and cyclone damage ~= APS^3 (yes - attacks per second cubed)
I wouldn't be surprised if FiTL is fixed in 1.04 so it doesn't count APS. I guess they might nerf Cyclone too. Hope they only do something like a timer and not a total nerf like they did to Nether Tentacles.

[magicrectangle]

Yes indeed I know. Not sure how this relates to DR vs BoH ?

Just because it is another damage buff, so it is pretty much in the same category of skills as those two when considering a build. If you can fit both faith in the light and one of DR or BoH in your build though, that's great. I'm pretty addicted to dashing strike so I only have room for one damage buff.

Still, my main question was why people are using BoH ? Apart from the heal ?

Foresight requires a full 3 attack cycle to activate, and the third attack has to hit an enemy. Blazing wrath can be activated at any time, instantly - in summary, convenience. And of course there's the heal.

[Galtrovan]

Must say, for me the "slightly useful" healing makes all the difference. In some situations (shielding...) LoH doesn't work, and then this healing is extremely useful.
And to ditch Serenity? That wont ever happen! The only skill that can break any CC for a monk. In some situations (nightmarish...) it actually even increases my DPS because without it I would only be running away all the time! So I do strongly advice against ditching serenity, at least until you reach around 10k armor, 1k resists and have a lot -% to crowd control time (which I start to think is a undervalued affix btw, Im soon gonna try skipping transcendence for the passive that makes you take less dmg while CC'd because that may be what makes me never die in the end...)

You do realize that as of Patch 1.0.3 "crowd control reduction" no longer reduces the duration of the crowd control time right?

From the patch notes......

Crowd Control Reduction from items and skills will now reduce the percentage value of Slow, Chill, and Attack Speed debuffs rather than reducing how long the debuff lasts

For example: previously, if you were debuffed by a 60% slow that lasted for 2 seconds while wearing gear that provides 20% Crowd Control Reduction, your movement speed would be reduced by 60%, but only for 1.6 seconds. Now, the same amount of Crowd Control Reduction will reduce the Slow effect to 48%, but the effect will remain for the full 2 second duration.