DW w/ heavy main hand for proc damage

[Enso]

Since cyclone procs off main hand damage, would it be worth it to wield a heavy main hand like a mace, and a fast offhand to keep APS up? If you had a 1.4 weapon and then add a 1.2, it still increases APS to ~1.5 or so. Also, does Backlash always proc off the main hand as well? If so, I could see a main hand mace and off hand dagger being ideal for a cyclone/backlash DW build.

[magicrectangle]

I tried my barb's mh mace instead of my fist, and the damage did feel better (comparable items), but the LoH healing was a lot lower and was giving me problems, so I switched back. If you've got the survival side of things firmly handled though, I'd say it is definitely the way to go.

[Enso]

So in this video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z64T8tFgvlM The streamer demonstrates that SW does not always use MH damage, but instead goes off whatever weapon is currently active (they switch back and forth in DW). He also shows that and damage buffs (foresight, blind, blazing wrath) are taken into account when you pop SW and the damage does not change until it drops off. Basically, SW takes a "snapshot" of your character sheet damage when it is started, based on currently active buffs and next weapon in line to hit, and uses that damage the whole time. This also applies to the cyclones. So it is better to use a slow and fast weapon when you DW for cyclone, but only if you pay attention to your APS to know which weapon is active and hit SW at the right time, otherwise you will lose a lot of damage.

[magicrectangle]

Yeah it would be really nice to be able to see which weapon were active without opening your character sheet. (Or if they made it just always use mainhand)

[gakky]

Wow what an eye opening video.
You could just hold a super fast weapon with huge dex and crit in second hand, then switch to a shield after activating SW. This sounds quite effective for boss fights.
I'm using DR Foresight buff for 18% damage instead of Breath of Heaven 15%. It also lets TC go on right button.

One thing i didn't see answered in the video, is Cyclone crit chance based upon your current chance is what it was when SW was started ?

[magicrectangle]

So in this video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z64T8tFgvlM The streamer demonstrates that SW does not always use MH damage, but instead goes off whatever weapon is currently active (they switch back and forth in DW). He also shows that and damage buffs (foresight, blind, blazing wrath) are taken into account when you pop SW and the damage does not change until it drops off. Basically, SW takes a "snapshot" of your character sheet damage when it is started, based on currently active buffs and next weapon in line to hit, and uses that damage the whole time. This also applies to the cyclones. So it is better to use a slow and fast weapon when you DW for cyclone, but only if you pay attention to your APS to know which weapon is active and hit SW at the right time, otherwise you will lose a lot of damage.

I can't believe the creator of this video didn't take the next logical step in testing, so I did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0d-C7-4F8w

You can pre-buff with a 2h, then swap to two fast LoH weapons. If you have a really sweet offhand with close to 200% crit damage you might be better off with a mainhand anyway, but even then you can pre-buff with a mace or spear mainhand, and then switch to a dagger mainhand for more procs and LoH.

I suppose if you were the macroing sort you could swap your entire gear set for prebuff, but without macros probably only weapon is reasonable.

[gakky]

Or switch to a shield for more cyclone procs.

*jaw drop alert* I have only just learned about the AS "feature" of FiTL. I now realise Cyclone triple dips on AS !! Someone correct me if I am wrong please.
FitL boosted cyclone damage = (1 + .3 x APS) x (damage x APS) x (crit chance x proc rate x APS)

Situation :
You have +14%AS.
+10%AS will increase cyclone damage by 21.6%
+15%AS will increase cyclone damage by 33.5% (DW effect)
+100%AS will increase cyclone damage by 452%

I need to rethink my shield approach .... 33.5% is better than losing 10% crit from a shield if you have 30 crit or more (including crit from shield).

[magicrectangle]

I swapped the 2h for a mainhand spear with good damage, 250 dex and a 70% crit gem, and an offhand sword with like 200 damage but 250 dex, 59% crit damage and a 70% crit damage gem. This ends up even better than the 2h, and also is easier to handle in the inventory, since if you rclick and then alt-rclick you just swap them directly, whereas with a 2h your offhand weapon would land in a random inventory spot (wherever was open starting from the left top) so you had to hunt to find it to re-equip.

Eventually I'll hunt down an offhand with lousy damage, good dex and like 90%+ crit damage and a socket, but for now 59% will do.

[magicrectangle]

FitL boosted cyclone damage = (1 + .3 x APS) x (damage x APS) x (crit chance x proc rate x APS)

Do you have a source for this? The second two terms are obvious, enough, but it is the first term I'm interested in, where did you get that from? If I can break it apart:

3rd term: (crit x proc x APS)
Simply the rate at which you put out cyclones.

2nd term: (damage x APS)
Weapon swing damage. Are you sure cyclones attack at weapon speed, and not at a fixed speed? This merits testing.

1st term: (1 + 0.3 x APS)
What now? So Faith in the light uses weapon DPS, not weapon damage? That's not what the tooltip says. Do you have a source for this? Also why not (0.2 + 0.3 x APS)? Cyclones do 20% weapon damage.

[gakky]

Do you have a source for this? The second two terms are obvious, enough, but it is the first term I'm interested in, where did you get that from? If I can break it apart:

3rd term: (crit x proc x APS)
Simply the rate at which you put out cyclones.

2nd term: (damage x APS)
Weapon swing damage. Are you sure cyclones attack at weapon speed, and not at a fixed speed? This merits testing.

1st term: (1 + 0.3 x APS)
What now? So Faith in the light uses weapon DPS, not weapon damage? That's not what the tooltip says. Do you have a source for this? Also why not (0.2 + 0.3 x APS)? Cyclones do 20% weapon damage.

I wasn't aware of the APS effect on FiTL until recently. There are a few posts on this I forget where, but it is very easy to confirm by looking at your damage when you invoke FiTL without considering SW or Cyclone or any skill. Notice it jumps more like 50% ? With more APS the % boost increases. I am sure this was not intended.
Cyclones are weapon damage so no reason to believe they wouldn't have the damage boost as any other skill.
But you are right, I could be wrong about the 2nd term - Cyclone damage (forgetting FiTL for the moment). Probably APS does not apply when a cyclone is triggered.
But (0.2 + 0.3 x APS) would be astronomical ! I hope it isn't that.

I tried this all out. Started using FiTL always before SW. I went from kill elites slowly Act 3 to killing much faster.
Then I got a bit more crit chance, a lot more AS, and dropped a lot of DPS to gear it up, but kill speed went up to killing elites very quickly !! And Ghom ... dies ... so ... quick ... before I would die before he took even 10% damage.