Archon HC Built: Possible?

[jrsilva]

I just can't come to terms with the traditional Blizzard/Hydra builds everybody in HC plays. I am leveling a Wizie and I thought of something around an arcane build as an option: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...QXR!aXU!cYYZaa

is this doable in HC, in your oppinion? Ifso great, because I would really love to run away form Blizzard/Hydra. But the real cool option would be to adjust this build to an Archon one, perhaps something around this: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...QXR!abg!cbYZaa

I loved Archon when I tried still in SC, but I could not solo with it, for if I kite, Archon doesn't make sense. Also, Diamond Skin is a waste here, just good for when Archon goes away. I assume Archon lives well with Energy Armor, for we can activate Energy Armor first, then release a Hydra and then Archon away.

So, what are your thoughts:

- Can Archon work in HC?
- What gear would i Need (lots of crit I assume)?
- What changes to that build would you suggest?

Cheers

[galzohar]

In HC anything is do-able, the only question is how long you'll be able to keep it up before you die. Compared to bliz/hydra, my bet is "not nearly as long"

[jrsilva]

Yeah that was my feeling. As regarding the arcane build I stated before: do you think it's HC viable? It's a kiting build too...

[Kinmaul]

I used a similar build to your arcane spec here and wrote a short guide about it back when the game first came out:
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/s...Blizzard-Hydra

Your build is more defensive because of HC, but same general skills and purpose. With an arcane kiting build you are trading control (and some surviability because of that control) for dps which typically goes againts the HC mantra of playing defensively. Temporal Flux is only a 30% snare vs Blizzard's 60% and that makes a huge difference when dealing with fast packs. There are going to be some packs on inferno (fast mobs with fast affix) that will overwhelm you because you simply lack the tools to keep them off of you. In SC not a huge deal, but that's not something you want happening in HC. I actually stopped using the build entirely when they put in increased repair costs because I was a pure glass cannon with no resists and it was a economic disaster to continue to play like that.

Blizzard just offers too much control to not use in HC imo where the goal is to play as safe as possible. There are different variants of the Blizz/hydra build that can spice things up. I was just watching a video where a guy uses Blizz/Hydra with electrocute - Forked lighting (crit hits release charges that deal 42% weapon damage). Amazing synergy with a good crit rate and the damage was impressive.

[jrsilva]

I used a similar build to your arcane spec here and wrote a short guide about it back when the game first came out:
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/s...Blizzard-Hydra

Your build is more defensive because of HC, but same general skills and purpose. With an arcane kiting build you are trading control (and some surviability because of that control) for dps which typically goes againts the HC mantra of playing defensively. Temporal Flux is only a 30% snare vs Blizzard's 60% and that makes a huge difference when dealing with fast packs. There are going to be some packs on inferno (fast mobs with fast affix) that will overwhelm you because you simply lack the tools to keep them off of you. In SC not a huge deal, but that's not something you want happening in HC. I actually stopped using the build entirely when they put in increased repair costs because I was a pure glass cannon with no resists and it was a economic disaster to continue to play like that.

Blizzard just offers too much control to not use in HC imo where the goal is to play as safe as possible. There are different variants of the Blizz/hydra build that can spice things up. I was just watching a video where a guy uses Blizz/Hydra with electrocute - Forked lighting (crit hits release charges that deal 42% weapon damage). Amazing synergy with a good crit rate and the damage was impressive.

Thanks a lot for your comments, and they obviously are more than educated, as opposite to mine, but the thing is: I really hate Blizzard/Hydra. I tried it 2 times and I hated it. And if I hate it, I will just drop my wizard, I am sure of that... The more I think of it, the more I am inclined to go arcane.

With that in mind, and always thinking it's HC, looking at your build and comparing to mine, I would ask you the following questions:

1. Does it make sense to you to drop Magic Weapon and include Diamond Skin? That would provide an extra level of emergency situation control, although the DPS would indeed drop.
2. Illusionist seems fine but I don't see how can I drop Blur or the other 2 passives you already have. What's your thoughts on this?
3. I love the feeling of Disintegrate, but it's by far inferior to Arcane Orb, right?
4. Gear wise, what would you recommend? I mean, first of all, 2H vs 1H+Source vs 1H+Shield. Then, what would be the level of resists adequate to Inferno (base resists, prismatic armor would go in after)?

Cheers

[Kinmaul]

1. Diamond skin is amazing at any gear level through hell difficulty. For it to be viable in inferno you need to have appropriate levels of resists which you should be aiming for anyways in HC.

2. Illusionist is going to save your bacon more often than Blur because it increases your mobility. If you are trapped in a bad spot with tele on cd taking 20% less melee damage probably isn't going to keep you alive.

3. Disintegrate is really only viable in inferno if you overgear the content. If you can stand there and channel while face tanking it's great, if you have to kite then it's not worth using. Wouldn't recommend it HC.

4. The extra armor and block (make sure your shield has a decent block %, this is often overlooked) from a shield makes a huge difference in survivability. If this is your first go at HC I would definately recommend you run a 1h+shield.

In terms of HC difficulty (i.e. survivability) wizards are kinda squishy. Obviously everyone has their own opinion but in terms of skills that relate to survival the ranking is something like DH < Wiz < WD < Monk < Barb. If this is your first go at HC I would error on the side of caution until you get a feel for things. If you are looking for specific dps/resists benchmarks for different parts of the game I would google "HC wizard guide" and do some research. The first thing you need to do if you are going to play HC is accept the fact that you are going to die and lose everything on that character. No matter how careful you play and no matter how many precautions you take it only takes one bad judgement call, or a lag spike, and it's all gone. If you go in with the mentality "well that's not going to happen to me!" you're setting yourself up for some serious nerd rage somewhere down the line.

[zaanus]

I just can't come to terms with the traditional Blizzard/Hydra builds everybody in HC plays. I am leveling a Wizie and I thought of something around an arcane build as an option: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#acOQXR!aXU!cYYZaa

is this doable in HC, in your oppinion? Ifso great, because I would really love to run away form Blizzard/Hydra. But the real cool option would be to adjust this build to an Archon one, perhaps something around this: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#amOQXR!abg!cbYZaa

I loved Archon when I tried still in SC, but I could not solo with it, for if I kite, Archon doesn't make sense. Also, Diamond Skin is a waste here, just good for when Archon goes away. I assume Archon lives well with Energy Armor, for we can activate Energy Armor first, then release a Hydra and then Archon away.

So, what are your thoughts:

- Can Archon work in HC?
- What gear would i Need (lots of crit I assume)?
- What changes to that build would you suggest?

Cheers

Blur won't save you nearly as often as illusionist will. 20% sounds like a good deal, but it doesn't really matter much when you are pretty much 3 hits from dead no matter what hits you in inferno with force armor. That is if you make it to 54 to get that build. Being able to teleport every time you get smacked in the face is what keeps a wizard alive.

You probably can over gear any content through hell with any build if you are using the AH regularly and have diamond skin up and go slowly and don't tangle with ugly pack combos.

But there's a reason everyone uses hydra/blizzard.... and its not because anyone really likes the play style. I'm sure most of us miss the fireballing frost orbing chain lightning sorces from D2.

Has anyone but a barb killed inferno diablo on HC yet without using a sploit?

[jrsilva]

Guys, thanks a lot for all your opinions. I am not new to HC at all. I played heavily in D2 and always HC and now I have a 60 Barb, 59 DH and 40 Wizard, all HC. I did play D3 SC before this, getting all these 3 classes to 60. I am quite prepared to lose chars, either to bad mobs or end bosses or lag or whatever. I lost a DH level 38 already due to a lag spike.

I do realize Blizzard/Hydra is the safest build but I rather die with a build that provides fun playing than staying alive and not having fun at all. And btw, the sorcie that I miss the most from D2 is the Nova Sorc, with maximum Fast Cast (200% if I remember well). The moto was Tele around really fast, then right to a mob, static 2/3 times, and then some Novas and it was done. All this with a ubber-geared merc with that runeword that porvided Conviction, which neutralized lightning immunities. That was my all time favorite D2 chat, with close second to Frenzy barb and then Hammerdin in third :-)

[Dethklok]

I just can't come to terms with the traditional Blizzard/Hydra builds everybody in HC plays. I am leveling a Wizie and I thought of something around an arcane build as an option: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...QXR!aXU!cYYZaa

Without Blizzard as snare you'd almost definitely want Arcane Nova instead of Tap the Source, allowing you to snare larger groups of monsters with Temporal Flux. The increase AP cost can be fixed with gear.

- Can Archon work in HC?
- What gear would i Need (lots of crit I assume)?
- What changes to that build would you suggest?

1) Archon is pretty much a death trap in HC. The Archon ability you're most likely to use, the disintegration ray, has a very low proc rate and doesn't get along with Critical Mass (or life on hit) as much as one would hope. Teleport goes away (you didn't select the Archon rune that allows it), and so do Diamond Skin, Hydra, and Seeker, basically forcing you to directly confront enemies. Add on the knowledge -- which you might try to forget but will stick in your mind regardless -- that Archon lasts 1 second longer per kill, and you're going to find yourself continually tempted to jump into battles you might not be able to handle. You will die and you will be sad. Even in SC, I find Archon to be one of those skills that seemed awesome in Hell yet painfully bad in Inferno.

2) Although Archon has a low proc rate, you'd still want plenty of crit rate, and crit damage, for pure DPS output, if for no other reason than your proc rate is so unusable that you'll actually want % lifesteal instead of life-on-hit. You'd need very good gear so that you could combine high survivability (which you'll need because of Archon's poor defensive skillset) with high DPS (which you'll need for lifeleech). You could easily choose alternate builds to progress further and faster for cheaper.

3) Play the Critical Mass build, don't use Archon. I know that doesn't seem like constructive criticism, but sometimes you need to destroy before you can rebuild.

[jrsilva]

Without Blizzard as snare you'd almost definitely want Arcane Nova instead of Tap the Source, allowing you to snare larger groups of monsters with Temporal Flux. The increase AP cost can be fixed with gear.

1) Archon is pretty much a death trap in HC. The Archon ability you're most likely to use, the disintegration ray, has a very low proc rate and doesn't get along with Critical Mass (or life on hit) as much as one would hope. Teleport goes away (you didn't select the Archon rune that allows it), and so do Diamond Skin, Hydra, and Seeker, basically forcing you to directly confront enemies. Add on the knowledge -- which you might try to forget but will stick in your mind regardless -- that Archon lasts 1 second longer per kill, and you're going to find yourself continually tempted to jump into battles you might not be able to handle. You will die and you will be sad. Even in SC, I find Archon to be one of those skills that seemed awesome in Hell yet painfully bad in Inferno.

2) Although Archon has a low proc rate, you'd still want plenty of crit rate, and crit damage, for pure DPS output, if for no other reason than your proc rate is so unusable that you'll actually want % lifesteal instead of life-on-hit. You'd need very good gear so that you could combine high survivability (which you'll need because of Archon's poor defensive skillset) with high DPS (which you'll need for lifeleech). You could easily choose alternate builds to progress further and faster for cheaper.

3) Play the Critical Mass build, don't use Archon. I know that doesn't seem like constructive criticism, but sometimes you need to destroy before you can rebuild.

So you think the Critical Mass Build is doable in HC? More so than the Arcanne build I suggested and that was similar to the one that was once posted in this forums?