Is DH still a good class after the latest patches?

[GIJoeWWW]

You sir, are the exception rather than the norm. Then again, I probably shouldn't be so down on DH. I was testing out a more defensive build and my dps wasn't really up to par. But in a full pub game, no amount of dps seems adequate. I just feel that I needed the other classes to survive but not the other way around.

I'm at 105k dps w/out SS with the scoundrel and 4 piece nats. I do a 5stack nv clear of cydea>azmodan in less than 15 minutes. I won't rule out the possibility that a barbarian can do the same, but I'd say its pretty unlikely.

[lucidlore]

I'm playing on a pretty weak laptop, so i can't record -- you'll just have to take my word for it.

Don't get me wrong, I do die pretty often. On a cydea > azmodan run, i die maybe twice. But despite dying, my clear rate is still very, very fast because my dps is strong enough to basically kill anything that isn't a champion or elite in 1 or 2 crits. We have the highest dps of any class because 1) we have to focus on fewer stats than anyone else to maximize our dps potential, and 2) we can wield a big 2 hander AND use an offhand at the same time. A dirt cheap end game quiver can give you 15% ias and 8.5% crit chance (along with a slew of other utility stats) on top of the beefy dps of a 2hander -- no one else can do this.

[lucidlore]

You sir, are the exception rather than the norm. Then again, I probably shouldn't be so down on DH. I was testing out a more defensive build and my dps wasn't really up to par. But in a full pub game, no amount of dps seems adequate. I just feel that I needed the other classes to survive but not the other way around.

Yes, I'm well aware that not everyone has my gear. But then this just proves the point that any limitation is due to gear, and not any inherent flaw in the class itself. Our potential to out damage anyone else still remains.

[galzohar]

Damage potential yes, but I am not convinced about the farming speed. Heck, if you kill everything in 1 hit you still farm slower than a barb/wizard if you actually bother to kill normal monsters. Fast farming nowadays isn't just about the ability to kill fast, but also the ability to ignore any non-elites, stopping only to attack elite monsters that actually can drop good stuff. That's where the barb is by far the strongest and wizard comes second with the 3 other classes quite a bit behind. Not having to kill normal mosnters is a lot more important than killing elites 2 seconds faster.

[lucidlore]

I'm not sure i get what you're trying to say. Yes, i kill everything. But i don't see what's to stop me from smoke screening and vaulting past the trash if i want to bypass it.

I already told you my clear speed. I start from cursed heart quest, pop down to the cellar level 3, kill 1 elite, pop over to tower of sin, clear down to cydea (by which time I usually have 5 stacks), kill cydea, clear heart of areat and kill azmodan -- all in around 13 - 14 minutes average. That's a pretty common run. Find me a barbarian video that does that run faster.

[magicrectangle]

Yes, I'm well aware that not everyone has my gear. But then this just proves the point that any limitation is due to gear, and not any inherent flaw in the class itself. Our potential to out damage anyone else still remains.

Needing 4 specific set pieces in order to even think about competing with other classes sounds like a a pretty serious flaw in the class to me.

Instead of giving an absurd set bonus so that the class is either worse than the rest if you don't have gear, or good if you do, they could have done something like buff the night stalker passive so that it could work in a build similar to critical mass, or any number of other things that don't marry you to 4 pieces of ridiculously expensive set gear.

[lucidlore]

Needing 4 specific set pieces in order to even think about competing with other classes sounds like a a pretty serious flaw in the class to me.

Instead of giving an absurd set bonus so that the class is either worse than the rest if you don't have gear, or good if you do, they could have done something like buff the night stalker passive so that it could work in a build similar to critical mass, or any number of other things that don't marry you to 4 pieces of ridiculously expensive set gear.

Sigh. I never said nats was necessary. Nats is but one route you can go if you have the resources to go for high end gear. Here is a video to prove my point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6OQUGvWb08

This guy has a bit more dps than me and his skills are a bit different. But he doesn't have the nats set yet is still able to cruise through the cydea > azmodan run with 0 deaths in 15 minutes. Imagine how much faster he can pull this run off if he had nats with permanent tactical advantage. The class is fine. If you're losing out to other classes, that just means they have better gear than you. This whole "grass is greener" mentality that many of you have isn't really anchored in reality.

[galzohar]

Don't get me wrong, it's not like the guy in the video is slow, but compared to critical mass teleport spamming and not to mention sprint barbs, this really is slow...

[lucidlore]

Don't get me wrong, it's not like the guy in the video is slow, but compared to critical mass teleport spamming and not to mention sprint barbs, this really is slow...

So show me a video of a barb who does that run faster. I just did that run myself and with 2 deaths, i finished it in 12 minutes. This is with me using nightstalker instead of tactical advantage. I can imagine doing that run in 10 minutes with tactical advantage and a few lucky break on easy elites/champs.

EDIT: Took a few tries, but i pulled it off in about 10 minutes 30 seconds. Good enough for me.

[galzohar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWsCgYodZ1Y

He enters the tower at 40:30 and kills azmodan at 45:45, so 4:15 time for the "run". I didn't count how many elites he killed on the way, though.

FYI, these kinds of boss runs are quite sub-optimal for farming. Full clear of the entire act (with or without the quests, preferably with as few quests as possible while still having the bosses) is best for maximum loot per time spent.