Lets discuss tank builds

[Virility]

Great build, works well for melee, but I'm getting pwned by groups of ranged mobs on Act3, especially heralds, flying monsters and those javelin throwing goats.

Every time I close them down they run away, which means they're not standing in the caltrops (no LOH, no slow) and none of my abilities can hit them apart from grenades and impale, neither of which work well against packs of ranged mobs.

Anyone got any tips on how best to handle them?

Hunger arrow, it lets you move around the spears, fireballs, little green lines of "wasps" etc while you leech and close the distance. I like it because it is not a big hate spender, the skill is spammable so the main damage skill is available to use, it does not require "aiming", as there are lots of things you are trying to avoid and moving. I prefer the rune that "explodes bones with crits" it is a nice little aoe effect on the white monsters.

[Kinmaul]

I'm on the same track as you, I really like the extra damage from Retaliate but it proccs off ranged attacks aswell which can make it wiff vs casters soemtimes which is a bit annoying. The dodge doesnt really matter I think since the cooldown starts as soon as you activate it, not when you use it. Correct me if I'm wrong, tried it a couple of times and seems correct.

Hail of Knives perhaps? Hits a bit more enemies and its easier to get those pesky runners. So used to retaliate I haven't really considered the alternatives. Farming Vault of the Assassin now and I feel like this might be a good choice with all the casters there.

You are right about the cd starting immediately, so I was wrong about the dps loss. I agree with you on Hail of Knives and that is what rune I decided upon as well. I like the on demand damage and the extra range is nice bonus.

I've been doing full clears in A2 ending with Belial for quite some time and I havent really had that problem. Where did you position yourself? Tried the lower east corner?

It could have been a positioning error which was giving me problems with grenades. I only did the fight two times, first time I died in p3 and the phase felt like it was dragging on forever, then I swapped to Hungering Arrow and killed him easily. On the wipe attempt I was standing right up on him because I wanted to get the LoH from Shuriken Cloud. I haven't been back since I've been doing my runs in a3, but I'll try and do some more testing on Belial with grenades.

[speedloader]

Vs Belial : did you tried to throw the grenades right behind you ?

[Kinmaul]

Actually I was dumb and threw them at him figuring they would explode as they went off the edge and hit him (this doesn't seem to work based on my single attempt). Are you saying that as long as the grenades blow up on the platform they hit the boss? If that's the case then I feel foolish, but at least it's good to know how to do the fight with nades now lol.

[Arthwyr]

Hunger arrow, it lets you move around the spears, fireballs, little green lines of "wasps" etc while you leech and close the distance. I like it because it is not a big hate spender, the skill is spammable so the main damage skill is available to use, it does not require "aiming", as there are lots of things you are trying to avoid and moving. I prefer the rune that "explodes bones with crits" it is a nice little aoe effect on the white monsters.

But which skill would you swap out? Grenades are what I tend to use as the main damage dealer and life leecher. Maybe swap it for Impale?

[EquiLa]

But which skill would you swap out? Grenades are what I tend to use as the main damage dealer and life leecher. Maybe swap it for Impale?

I wouldent do this and there's no need to for it either. Just snipe them with impale until they die. You'll get the 100% wdmg ranged attack when out of hatred anyways. If its elites they're kinda your hardcounter and the worst possible mob in the game. Just like any other specc has some combination of monsteraffixes this is your bane. Those and the A2 Ancient casters, they just ruin you

What I usually do: Run straight up to one and drop 1-3 Caltrops on them to get them slowed then burst with Impale/Fan of Knives. The others will usually just run away but try to grab them one by one instead. Grenade spam usually doesnt work so just drop 1-Move-Kite towards them when you're out of hatred. Nightmareish/Jailer - Consider skipping them.

Generally I wouldent drop anything for one specific mob and there's no really good alternatives for those mobs anyways without gimping yourself towards everything else so I dont see the point.

[Arthwyr]

I wouldent do this and there's no need to for it either. Just snipe them with impale until they die. You'll get the 100% wdmg ranged attack when out of hatred anyways. If its elites they're kinda your hardcounter and the worst possible mob in the game. Just like any other specc has some combination of monsteraffixes this is your bane. Those and the A2 Ancient casters, they just ruin you

What I usually do: Run straight up to one and drop 1-3 Caltrops on them to get them slowed then burst with Impale/Fan of Knives. The others will usually just run away but try to grab them one by one instead. Grenade spam usually doesnt work so just drop 1-Move-Kite towards them when you're out of hatred. Nightmareish/Jailer - Consider skipping them.

Generally I wouldent drop anything for one specific mob and there's no really good alternatives for those mobs anyways without gimping yourself towards everything else so I dont see the point.

Thanks for the advice.

One question I have is how do you normally use your skills? I find myself just spamming grenades constantly for the huge LOH, and never finding an opportunity to use impale except for ranged mobs. Do you tend to use impale whenever you have enough hatred and if so, do you not miss the LOH from grenades? Does impale even do more damage than grenades?

[EquiLa]

Thanks for the advice.

One question I have is how do you normally use your skills? I find myself just spamming grenades constantly for the huge LOH, and never finding an opportunity to use impale except for ranged mobs. Do you tend to use impale whenever you have enough hatred and if so, do you not miss the LOH from grenades? Does impale even do more damage than grenades?

Fan of Knives while running, Trap in the middle of the pack, Impale until no Hatred while setting new Traps(can do it at the same time).
Fan of Knives again when its up, Gloom when needed and if not drop even more Traps, Grenades only if everything is else is on cooldown or you're out of hatred/discipline. I very rarely find myself spamming grenades at all, pretty much everything is dead after the initial Knives + Impale streak. If you're having problem surviving during the start of the fight drop a gloom while using Impale. One duration of it should give enough time to empty your hatredpool.

But everyone gets different mileage, I've dropped a lot of defense for offence and focusing on attacking is usually the better choice for me.

[Arthwyr]

Thanks, I'll give that a try tonight.

A modification to your build that I've been thinking about is switching impale for Spike Trap<Scatter>. I'm a big fan of Spike Trap for its huge damage and have been using it as my main skill up to now. I'm thinking I can spam grenades whilest laying down 3 spike traps on top of me every 2 seconds. This way I'd get both huge damage (from spike traps) plus huge LOH (from grenades).

I'll try out both builds tonight and see how it goes.

[thefranklin]

Arthwry: Spamming grenades while laying spike traps (which also proc numbing traps btw) is what I normally do, it is very effective especially when you back yourself into a corner. I only use my other hatred spender (if you have one skilled) when I am not taking heavy damage. I used to keep overpenetration around, but recently I have been using Frost Arrow (great synergy with Cull of the Weak, can get 15% more damage on my spike traps if I time it right).

I don't have SS or Gloom on my bar, I can switch out a 2h + quiver or 1h + shield, and the 2hander kills things 3 times quicker. I switch to the 2hander when I have to kite something and they are not jailer (fire constructs, blood clan occulist casters). They don't like to stand on my traps and allow grenade spam.

I do not use Fan of Knives. I have come to the conclusion that caltrops and grenades will kill any melee enemies sufficiently, and most of my skills is attempting to take down ranged better. Running up to ranged to cast FoK didn't fit my playstyle. I like to kite them backwards, laying traps and then letting them come towards me where I can dps them (frost arrow, spike traps) while they stand on my traps. While doing that, I work my way to unexplored areas killing trash along the way.