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  1. #41
    IncGamers Member ible's Avatar
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    Re: Elites are completely broken

    Monk is facerolling act1. You are doing something very wrong.



  2. #42
    IncGamers Member keppie's Avatar
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    Re: Elites are completely broken

    Quote Originally Posted by FireIceTalon View Post
    This post hits the nail on the head. Inferno is a broken system, period. Not just the cheezy monster affixes though - the enrage timers and absurd repair costs also need to go. They are trying to WoW'ify Diablo, and you simply cannot mix MMO mechanics into an RPG game and expect a quality, balanced game that people will have fun with. Sure, a few groupies/fanboys will love ANYTHING Blizz puts out, but the majority? No.
    Yes, they did indeed wow-ify diablo. Get rid of it all. It's all trash. Every little thing of it.
    Ah'es, scripted boss events, Don't stand in the green/pink/yellow/purple/red/blue/whatever puddle gameplay.
    Why are there even crowd-control affixes for monsters in an ARPG ? Most people probably play it solo most of the time. This is not an MMO !
    IF you insist giving monsters cc abilities. Then why can't players have any countermeans ?
    Why make elites so powerful you have to kite everything around the map like a wuss ?
    Why place cooldowns on skills so you're constantly defenseless ? You already have resources limiting your use of your skills
    Why why why does this feel like a half-assed game borrowing way too many things from the MMO world it should not have done.




  3. #43
    Clan Officer - US East Hardcore AlexanderBarin's Avatar
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    Re: Elites are completely broken

    Quote Originally Posted by keppie View Post
    IF you insist giving monsters cc abilities. Then why can't players have any countermeans ?
    Why make elites so powerful you have to kite everything around the map like a wuss ?
    Why place cooldowns on skills so you're constantly defenseless ? You already have resources limiting your use of your skills
    Why why why does this feel like a half-assed game borrowing way too many things from the MMO world it should not have done.
    1.Players do have counters to CC. There are also anti-CC items. Research.
    2.Elites aren't powerful if you're more powerful. Get better gear, don't run ahead of yourself.
    3.Because WOTB and EQ and Archon Form should have no cooldown? Umm?
    4.It doesn't feel that way to me, sorry.

    That said I do agree that elites could be nerfed to around 50-75% of their current power, however overall the monsters should be more numerous, like in D2 - this would give players this awesome feeling of destroying huge armies in seconds. But I'm afraid there are performance implications to this :(



  4. #44
    IncGamers Member Apocalypse's Avatar
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    Re: Elites are completely broken

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderBarin View Post
    1.Players do have counters to CC. There are also anti-CC items. Research.
    the problem with several of the anti CC skills is they are on cooldowns while the mobs have no cooldowns. they just endlessly spam ice bombs



  5. #45
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    Re: Elites are completely broken

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderBarin View Post
    I am demolishing every single affix combo within 10 sec in A1/A2 Inferno (not geared enough for A3 yet, but soon will be).

    And that's Hardcore. Where some of the affixes can kill you in 2 seconds, if you play dumb.

    Waller Arcane Desecration Frozen?

    Wrath and Quake, mother------, collect ilvl63 loot, thanks bro.

    Want to faceroll hard elites? Don't fight stuff over your gear level. I'm mostly in 60-61s so I only fight A1/A2. When I'll be in all 62-63 I'll be facerolling A3/4 as well.
    All my equipment is around lv 57-58..

    So you suggest me to farm hell? But there I won't get loot for 60+; so I can't ever realistically progress.



  6. #46
    IncGamers Member Apocalypse's Avatar
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    Re: Elites are completely broken

    pretty sure you can get 61 and 62 ilvl in hell. i think only 63 is not dropped there

    edit: act 3 and 4 of hell



  7. #47
    Clan Officer - US East Hardcore AlexanderBarin's Avatar
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    Re: Elites are completely broken

    You can get up to ilvl 62 in Hell A3/A4, actually. Alternatively, farm gold and buy decent 60-61 from AH, it's dirt cheap.


    the problem with several of the anti CC skills is they are on cooldowns while the mobs have no cooldowns. they just endlessly spam ice bombs
    Absolutely, agreed. It's either you kill the boss while you have the anti CC (e.g. Barb WOTB, 15 sec, plenty of time to kill the boss unless they have really tough anti-burst mods like shielder/extra life and ranged base), or you rotate your anti-CC against boss's CC. For example, if my WOTB is on cooldown, I have to use Furious charge to escape. If the boss is a waller, or vortexer, or frozen, his cooldown is also around 10 sec.

    Now, they may have more than 1 cc affix, for example Frozen+Vortex. If combined with an offensive like Desec or Arcane, this spells quick death, for example, I see Frozen, I charge out, get vortexed back in, dead. This is why I run a secondary anti-CC ability, Ignore Pain. This gives me 7 seconds of near immunity. If the above scenario happens to me, I'll IP and survive till charge is back up, then run off to break LOS and kite for 20 seconds until IP is back up. Not very fun, but hey, I have either EQ or WOTB up for every pack (or both for really tough packs), so I get to do this once per maybe 100 packs.

    Really tough ones can and do happen. My last HC death was due to blind charge into 4x frozen desec champs with WOTB and EQ on cooldown. I died even with IP due to being frozen over and over, and not able to charge out at all. My mistake, totally - I shouldn't have charged right into it from the start. But this shouldn't happen often. Since that death I've farmed about 3 full tabs of ilvl 63 items. That's alot of frigging A1/A2 (incl HC Belial) farming. ALOT. With no deaths, and without skipping a single pack. Even if it is a tough, risky pack, I'll regroup and go back and kill it. I consider it an insult to my skills to skip a pack, no matter how ridiculous it is.

    All that said, I'm playing Barb. Barbs and Monks are best classes in HC due to tons of survival abilities. I can't speak for DH/Wiz/WDs, they are much more glass cannonish, and therefore the players need to be alot more precise about tackling elites, and if death is a factor either due to HC or repair costs, never overestimate yourself. Stick to lower acts until you can burn a pack within 15-20 sec. If it takes you longer than that, you're in over your head, simple as that.



  8. #48
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    Re: Elites are completely broken

    Item level 60+ CAN drop in act 3/4 hell...at a very low drop rate.

    Combine that low drop rate with the fact that there is so much randomization to the affixes, and you have just made the rate of USEFUL 60+ gear like winning the drawing for your local radio station contest.

    Add to that the randomization of low-medium-high rolls where high rolls seem to be rarer than statistically normal, and now your chances of finding a piece correctly itemized with a high enough roll to be an upgrade like winning the lottery.

    But that's working as designed. Have to keep the prices high enough on the RMAH so that the Blizz cut covers the transaction fees for them. The economy is more important than your fun. Stop being selfish.

    The side effect of creating a system of haves/have nots (AH barons, etc) is not important either.

    I like the game play for the most part, but Blizz is killing my motivation to even try to improve my toons with the issues of content blocking (which forces me to farm a very small set of quests...too small to enjoy repeatably), gear acquisition rates and boring itemization. All things I think can be fixed if Blizzard understands what we really have fun with.

    But, our kind are being looked down upon around here. Heaven forbid you would like to see the potential of this game realized and point out how or why, regardless of how logical or supported your arguments are. There are plenty of people here who will tell you they are wearing all self-found gear and cleared Inferno without playing the AH heavily, or exploiting, or etc. I'm not going to believe it, but they'll tell you all about it and how I'm just bad at the game because I can't find drops.

    To be fair, I haven't been attacked for these things personally...yet. But I'm seeing more and more of it in other threads to other people making similar comments as mine.

    Edit to address comments that beat me to the punch:
    I don't think farming gold should EVER be a recommended strategy. That is not fun to the majority of the player base. That should be a last resort option, not the goal of the game.
    "Farm gold..."
    "Buy low sell high..."
    "For just xxxK gold on the AH you can...."
    I think any solution that has an element like those should not be considered compelling game play and is not worthy of a Diablo title. I expect more from the Blizzard I have always respected and want to continue to be loyal to.



  9. #49
    Clan Officer - US East Hardcore AlexanderBarin's Avatar
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    Re: Elites are completely broken

    Nah.

    I am wearing only 1 item that I bought from AH. The rest I farmed myself.

    If you have trouble farming or don't like farming, this isn't a game for you. But then I struggle to think you really like D2 either, because farming in D2 was actually more daunting in places. Itemization was better, true (it'll get fixed in D3 eventually btw), but finding upgrades was NOT an easy task unless you specifically went MF sorc route.

    -Untwinked barb trying to get to nm? GL farming 100+ weapon like Bonesnap or Steeldriver. Seriously, have fun in baal normal.
    -High end farming? Run pit/tunnels for 2 weeks to maybe find 1 upgrade.
    -5000 baal runs? Sorry, no windforce, seeya
    -1.0 high stat lance/executioner/battlehammer/ornate plate farming? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh this one brings tears to my eyes. About the same as "zod farming".

    The big difference was, you could beat Hell Baal in crap gear sorc. You cant beat D3 inferno in crap gear.

    But finding upgrades being easier? Oh give me a freaking break. D2C had everyone wearing duped rares. Someone wearing a legitimate 300+ lance was an anomaly. Same as D2x and all the HRs/HR words. Botted or duped.

    Yeah, you could still find amazing gear like stormshield with some dedication on Hell Meph, but even that took hours/days of grinding.

    Itemization in D3 sucks, but it will be fixed. Droprates on upgrades are fine. All the crying about being goaded towards RMAH makes it sound like you hate farming in general. I sell 99 items before I buy 1 on GAH (and wouldn't ever use RMAH, personally). If you feel forced otherwise, you're doing it wrong.

    Think about it. Who put up those 1200 dps 1handers up on RMAH? Blizzard did? Nope. Someone found them.

    Why wasn't that someone - you?



  10. #50
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    Re: Elites are completely broken

    Actually it depends on how you define upgrades. I frequently found stuff just a little better than what I was wearing (Edit for clarity IN D2). Total guestimate, but I'd say every 6-12 hours. That's not saying I found perfectly rolled anything or that one awesome unique everyone wanted. I'm just saying stuff I actually equiped over what I was previously wearing.

    I have two inferno toons and a level 50. Of those three toon, I have exactly 1 slot I am wearing that is self found...out of 39 possible slots. I do still play quite a bit so I am obviously farming. Not saying I don't like farming. I'm saying I don't like farming where I make enough gold to upgrade 38 slots in the time it takes me to find 1 upgrade. That.....removes all feeling of reward from the game.

    Edit: And that one upgrade is a bracer slot that is more of a side grade. It didn't have vit on it but did have all res, so it might not have been a true upgrade but I equiped it just to pretend I found an upgrade. So sick of not having any self-found gear.

    Edit to address Alex's edit: (This is kinda funny, lol)
    Alex, the reason that person wasn't me is because of two factors.
    1. Many of the people (not saying all but I firmly believe most) farming A 3/4 got there by being AH players or using exploits/bots early in the game. They have had exclusive access to that content and are manipulating it to full advantage. I won't do that even if I could.
    2. Even a 0.00000001 chance becomes possible when you have 7 million people putting in the play time as the game has seen so far. In fact, if you really consider all the hours played by all the players combined, the number of well itemized/well rolled pieces on the AH is actually remarkably LOW.

    You can't point to a group and say, "They all won the lottery, so why haven't you!". Given enough time and enough players, of course there are a lot of people who found awesome gear. Doesn't mean I have a chance of finding USABLE (not asking for awesome-I fully believe that should take time) gear that is high enough to be fun to me.

    You say you sell 99 pieces to every one you have found. I've found 1 piece I equiped even though it was more of a side grade as I mentioned. I have only been able to sell about 10 pieces and three of those were re-sells of stuff I bought. None of that was level 60+ items. None of it even sold for 100k.

    I might be a statistical outlier who has worse luck than most. Even if I'm the worst care scenario, however, shouldn't I still be able to have fun? Should I just be totally SOL in progression due to that? Sounds like it could/should be fixed at a design level to me.


    Last edited by sifuedition; 06-07-2012 at 15:13.

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