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  1. #1
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    Bidding Explained (how it works, how people use it, and how to use it)

    How Bidding Works

    In the Diablo auction house, when you bid on an item, you enter the maximum price you are willing to pay for the item. The system then automatically outbids anyone who bids lower than you, increasing the current bid accordingly. The number you enter is not revealed to anyone. What people see is basically the amount the highest bidder needed to bid in order to outbid the 2nd highest bidder.

    First bidder on an item doesn't have to raise his bid. Therefore, if you click "bid" and the default amount entered for you is the same as the current bid, you know that you are the first to bid on an item.

    Obviously, you can only bid with gold that you have, and that gold would be deducted fully when you bid. Don't worry, you'll get your gold back (in the "competed" tab) when you get outbid, or get part of it back if you win the auction for less than the amount you entered.

    When you see an item with 1mil current bid

    When the auction times out, the highest bidder gets the item for a bit more than the 2nd highest bid.

    With this system, it's theoretically safe to place your bid at any time, and if you bid high enough you will win. However in practice there are more factors to consider!

    The Uninformed Masses

    Since there is no explanation of the system anywhere obvious, most players are not aware of this system.

    What many seem to do is just bid the default amount, and wait until they get outbid. When they get outbid, they go back to the item and re-bid the default amount. If they don't visit the auction house between the moment they get outbid to the moment when the auction times out, they lose an auction that they might have won if they initially bid the correct amount.

    Some would blame bots to instantly outbid them, while in reality it is simply someone who placed a higher bid originally, and you are simply not aware of it (there is no way for you to find out other than trying to place a bid and see him automatically outbidding you). This isn't a bot - This is simply how the system works.

    As the auction nears ending, a lot of people would try to repeatedly place a bid on the item in hopes to win it. This means they might pay more than they are willing (since they don't think before they place the bid), but this also affects the highest bidder! Every time they click the "bid" button, they raise the amount the highest bidder has to pay.

    Bid Last Minute!

    Why? Because of those people who keep hitting the bid button. Every time they hit it, they increase the amount you have to pay. The less time they have, the less you will pay for the item. This may only apply when the 2nd highest bidder belongs to the uninformed masses, but since there is no downside to last minute bidding you might as well just do it and enjoy a chance to get the item for less than you would if you just bid earlier. The later you bid, the more difficult it will be for such people to spam the bid button to try and outbid you (be it successfully or unsuccessfully).

    Another advantage of bidding last minute is that you get to keep your gold. Placing your gold away for 1-36 hours is generally not something you want to do, because you never know what kind of amazing deals you'll find during that time and might be unable to buy because you placed your gold on an item you might not even win.

    The only situation where you should bid on an item ahead of time is when you know this might be the last time you're visiting the auction house before the auction times out and aren't trying to snag the item cheap. While in a situation where the 2nd highest bidder is informed about how the system works last minute bidding provides zero benefit, since you never know who that person is, it's always best to bid last minute if possible. It is however not necessary and definitely isn't guaranteed to reduce the price you will pay or make you win the auction. But *sometimes* - It just might...

    Some items are less likely to get bid on

    People generally avoid bidding on items if they don't have to. Be it because they have to wait for the item, because they have to pay as much as another person is willing to pay rather than snagging a cheap deal, or because the items are difficult to search for. Keep in mind, though, that even items that have reduced competition may end up costing just as much, as it only takes 1 competitor that bids high enough to get the price to jump. It'll simply happen less often on items that are less likely to get a bid.

    Items with high buyouts are less likely to get bid on (though not as much after latest hotfix). Often players will search the auction house with a max buyout filter, and thus will not see any item available for bidding if it has a high buyout price. Then, they might look at items with no buyouts so they might bid on them, but may neglect to look at items that do have a buyout.

    When selling an item, I believe you will usually be able to squeeze more gold out of it with a proper buyout, since less people spend time bidding due to its various disadvantages. However, if you don't know the price, setting an absurdly high buyout may make potential bidders miss out on the item and thus you will end up with less gold in your pocket. In any case, always set minimum bid to something you would be happy with, and not to something so low that will make you think "I should have just kept the item" when it ends up selling for that minimum bid.

    People don't bid on low price items! There are a LOT of them, and their prices are very stable. No reason to bid, and no reason to expect anyone to bid on a low quality item. Always place a buyout on low quality items, even if it's a bit cheaper. You might lose some gold, but you'll be able to sell more of them. I'm sure you find a lot of low quality items, therefore the space they take up on the AH is definitely an issue you don't want to enhance. If you're not sure whether the item is worth 10k or 20k, just list it for 10k and be done with it. If you try to get people to bid on it, not only you're guaranteed for the item to stay up for 36 hours, but you're also likely to sell it for less than its value, since most will be willing to pay a few extra measly pieces of gold just so that they don't have to wait. People are only willing to wait for expensive items that they have spent a significant amount of time farming the gold for and searching them on the auction house.

    Auctions ending at odd hours are less likely to get a bid! Be it due to people who are in one way or another aware of the benefits of last minute bidding, or simply because people who didn't want to put their money away on an item they won't even win, those items simply get less competition. Since auctions are now 36 hours, there are a lot of items that end at such odd hours! After all, if you place an item at prime time, it will time out early in the morning when nobody is online. If you can get online at those times and bid on those items, you have a somewhat higher chance to win them at a lower cost. Of course, you can perform the search in advance, since those items must be on the auction house for at least 36 hours anyway, and only get online when the auction is about to time out.


    One last thing - Bidding on items is IMO the second best way to buy items for a good price. The best obviously being buying items with 1d11h/1d12h left that were listed too cheap. The point here is that items that haven't sold for more than 2 hours will likely not sell - If they were worth it, someone would have bought them already! You will rarely (never?) find an item with less than 1d11h left that will be a better deal than what you can get from bidding, since with bidding you are guaranteed that there is at least 1 other person who was willing to pay almost as much as you paid. Assuming you aren't the first bidder, of course (and for this reason you should avoid placing first bids, unless it's a last minute bid on an item you are absolutely sure is worth it).


    Hope this helps someone!




  2. #2
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    Re: Bidding Explained (how it works, how people use it, and how to use it)

    Great post galzohar! I hope it'll be a sticky.

    The only thing I don't fully agree is "Bid Last Minute!". Maybe that's because I tend to never bother looking at an auction again after I bid the actual amount I'd pay. I win every time - either I bought something for a reasonable price or I didn't overpay :-)

    Regarding items that sell mostly up to 1h after posting to AH, I was surprised how many times my items were bought 8-12 hours after I post them. I only wish that auction time could be shortened to 24h for the reason that I play on almost same time daily (after work) and with 36h my auctions finish when I'm not around (and cannot post items that didn't sell with lower price for example).



  3. #3
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    Re: Bidding Explained (how it works, how people use it, and how to use it)

    excellent post.

    with regards to the 'if it doesn't sell right away it wont sell' i think that mostly applies to generic crap. the higher the value of the item the more time it needs to actually be exposed to a pretty small group of buyers - not everyone wants to pay 100$ for item xxx.



  4. #4
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    Re: Bidding Explained (how it works, how people use it, and how to use it)

    Good post, pretty much agree with everything, though I must point out that logging on in the middle of the not night not always guarantees great deals anymore. It seems many people (or bots?) are active during odd hours so it's not always worth it. I did bag a good Wanderlust for 400k that I sold for 3m recently - it was right after they fixed the AH and not many people were aware it's working.



  5. #5
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    Re: Bidding Explained (how it works, how people use it, and how to use it)

    "Because of those people who keep hitting the bid button. Every time they hit it, they increase the amount you have to pay."

    Didnt rly understand this. Lets say Ive put up an item on RMAH and someone bids on it. Could I then go in on another account and just spam the bid button so that the first bidder will have to pay more and more for every click? I prob misunderstood this :P



  6. #6
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    Re: Bidding Explained (how it works, how people use it, and how to use it)

    Nothing is ever guaranteed. You can only reduce the chance of having competition, but never eliminate it. It doesn't have to be a bot - Just 1 guy like you is enough to increase your bid or outbid you. He's just less likely to be around and bidding on the same item at the odd hours compared to prime time.

    Items that sell "late" are the exception, not the norm. Sure, some people don't realize they're over-paying and buy over-priced items. But since getting enough gold for a good item is difficult, even the dumbest players avoid doing these sort of things as much as they can. Doesn't mean they won't, but it won't be very common and shouldn't be relied on. Funny enough, this happens a lot more often on the RMAH (which can lead to some possibly interesting conclusions about the buyers on the RMAH).

    Quote Originally Posted by hetsig View Post
    "Because of those people who keep hitting the bid button. Every time they hit it, they increase the amount you have to pay."

    Didnt rly understand this. Lets say Ive put up an item on RMAH and someone bids on it. Could I then go in on another account and just spam the bid button so that the first bidder will have to pay more and more for every click? I prob misunderstood this :P
    I'll try to explain with an example:

    Let's say the currently highest bidder placed 2mil and you are willing to pay 5mil. When you bid you will be winning for 2.1mil and the next guy bidding will have to bid at least 2.205mil to even be allowed to place a bid.

    If you bid early, someone who doesn't understand the system will bid the 2.2mil, get instantly outbid, and bid again and again and again until the sum is too high for him or until he outbids you. This guy isn't trying to hurt you. He's actually hurting himself, since he would have been much better off to just initially place a bid equal to how much he's willing to pay. If he knew how it works, he'd either outbid you outright or raise your bid to his maximum with only a single click of the bid button.

    If you bid at the last minute, that someone will get the auction time out before he can repeat the "bid again" process multiple times. In cases where this guy is your top competitor for the item, bidding at the last minute will result in you getting the item for less because the auction will time out before he can hit the "bid" button too much.

    This obviously doesn't do anything against people who know how the system works and bid in advance the maximum amount they are willing to pay, so if one such person is competing with you it doesn't matter when you bid. But since even in the worst case scenario it simply doesn't matter when you bid, there is no downside to last minute bidding in any case (except having to be online and out of game at the correct time and remembering to bid). That, with the added advantage of not putting your gold away for 1-36 hours on an item you might not even win, gives little reason to not bid last minute if you have a choice.


    Another thing I just remembered: It seems like you can't increase your bid once you place it. If you try to bid again you will outbid yourself and raise the current bid on the item to your previous bid plus 5%, which is obviously not something you want to do. This does need to be verified, though.




  7. #7
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    Re: Bidding Explained (how it works, how people use it, and how to use it)

    Items that sell "late" are the exception, not the norm. Sure, some people don't realize they're over-paying and buy over-priced items. But since getting enough gold for a good item is difficult, even the dumbest players avoid doing these sort of things as much as they can. Doesn't mean they won't, but it won't be very common and shouldn't be relied on. Funny enough, this happens a lot more often on the RMAH (which can lead to some possibly interesting conclusions about the buyers on the RMAH).
    this just isn't my experience - top items take time to be seen by the small group of people who are interested in buying them. if they sell right away you're pricing it too low. that said i sell only on the rmah, paying 15% vs 1$ is ridiculous and i tend not to peddle items above the 250$ (125m gold) range.



  8. #8
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    Re: Bidding Explained (how it works, how people use it, and how to use it)

    May be that top items you list for a relatively accurate price take time to sell, but most items you do see on the AH that haven't sold within 2 hours will also not sell. Again, this is less true on the RMAH just like it is less true for extremely high-end items, but it is still extremely often the case.

    Bottom line is, when you see an item for 10mil with 1d10h left, it is most likely overpriced, and if you want to buy it and get a good deal you'd need to be extremely confident that you have just been lucky enough for nobody to see it before you, rather than the item simply not selling because nobody wants to pay the listed amount.




  9. #9
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    Re: Bidding Explained (how it works, how people use it, and how to use it)

    Great post,

    can i ask a question about the 2nd highest bidder - amount automatically updating, as i had an issue a couple of days ago i couldn't explain maybe you had something similar:

    I was trying to bid last minute on an item, current bid was just over 6m.
    I put a 7m bid on the item, however had a system message that the bid was too low to be the winning bid. looking at the item, the current bid still had the 6m listing, so i tried 7.5m and again found mid bid was too low.
    the item sold at the 6m amount.

    is there something i'm missing here? any way you've come across to get your bid to "stick" and just ignore other people's higher bids? :s




  10. #10
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    Re: Bidding Explained (how it works, how people use it, and how to use it)

    The highest bidder bid more than 7mil. You need to refresh to see the new current bid, which is most likely your bid (7mil) plus 5%. When you bid 7.5mil and get outbid it is because the highest bidder bid more than 7.5mil too.

    What you did was exactly the reason why it is best to bid last minute. Because the winner bid early, you had the time to re-bid 7.5mil and thus make him pay more compared to if you just had time to bid 7mil and by the time you realize you were outbid the auction would end.

    In any case, if you are willing to pay 7.5mil it is best to simply bid 7.5mil from the start. There is no advantage bidding 7mil then raising to 7.5mil over simply bidding 7.5mil right away, as long as you bid last minute so you screw over anyone who isn't aware of how the system works and didn't place his max bid from the start. Before you bid, think - "Will I really not be willing to pay 100k more for this item?" and if you answer "yes", add 100k to your bid and repeat the process until you answer "no", and only then actually bid on the item (and preferably at the last minute).

    If you bid lower than your maximum you are creating 2 problems for yourself:
    1. You will possibly not have time to re-bid due to last minute bids by others.
    2. You will have to make a very quick decision about whether you are or are not willing to increase your bid, which you might regret. Auctions are up for 36 hours! You have plenty of time to think - Use it!




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