What would you have done as an endgame?

[Yersinia Pestis]

I would have put more focus on the random events.

I think it would be pretty cool if events in inferno where more common and a bit harder than the rest of the act.
They should feature unique mechanics (like the timed dungeon) which require you to rethink your strategy and spice the game up a bit.
In order to make them worth something, you should gain +1 NV after finishing an event and finishing one with NV 5 should give you 2 garantied rares.

I would also put a specific boss in every (random apearing) side area in inferno which is harder than normal boss packs but also garanties 2 rares (NV 5).
Theses bosses can also side area specific items.
This would be 1 BS plan and 1/2/3 items you need (in order with lots of gold and crafting materials) to craft that item. That item has can be used once inside that area to summon some really ahrd boss which would drop really good.

[zacheroog]

For PvM, I'd put in at least 30+ gimmicky uber dungeons a la Median.

Pretty much this. Leave Inferno alone, and just add some content that's more balanced for post-hell adventuring. Not only for balance, but to get us away from having to repeat the same story all over again. Endless dungeons and wave dungeons. Fast paced levels with timed objectives. Basically something fun that's not doing the game all over again on a higher difficulty difficulty.

[rockoffire]

Endless dungeon sounds kinda boring to me...A3 felt like an endless staircase and i hated it.

I think that replaying the game for a fourth time is pretty lame, they should have just ramped the difficulty through norm,nm, and hell better.

Would have like Hell to still be the grind and Inferno to be completely something else purely for the pursuit of difficulty or holy grail type items

[Karamo]

Being able to level up. To get exp.

That's all.

[Barry White]

Im not a fan of the endless dungeon idea. I can see why people would love it, seeing how many levels they could get through but its just not for me. There would be a lot of "skip every monster unless its required to open up the next dungeon" play going on, especially in MP. And i just think after a few levels of it i would get bored or want to do a different area.

Personally i would get most enjoyment out of a D2 style "damn near impossible to reach level cap". I did A LOT of Mf runs in D2 on Baal because not only did he drop good stuff, but it was also great for leveling past 85. I had 2 great reasons to kill him and his minions all day. Take out all the story fluff in inferno, because going through the same story for a 4th time is pointless, nobody playing at that point wants to see cutscenes or stupid dialogue every 2 minutes again. How hard is it to only have them on normal, or at the start of every act past normal a little popup comes up and says "would you like to skip all cutscenes/story dialogue for this Act?".

And honestly, i get bored, particularly at the start of a new Act (except Act 3, that kicks ***) because i know im going to have to kill 100 packs of identical normal monsters. Mix things up. Throw the story/structure out the window and just say "ok, so this dungeon any normal monster in the game can spawn" or "one area you will be fighting standard Act 1 skeletons and goatmen, but the next area we are throwing oppressors and flying bees at you".

As for character development, there is no attachment to them. You can turn your barb into any other barb in 1 minute, stat points are assigned automatically etc etc. If you have a friend the same class as you at level 60 you can basically clone them by just putting on their items. In D2 i had all sorts of odd builds and the only way to get another like it was to start from level 1 and play through the game. I grew to really love my characters and they felt individual, even the cookie cutter builds.

So have an option in D3 once you hit the max level or finish inferno etc to customise your character. Mess around with the stat points, maybe even be able to modify your skills (say a slider to increase damage at the cost of increased cooldown/more mana cost/reduced radius on a per skill basis). This wouldnt be easy to do for all skills evenly but it would be great to experiment. Let me see what a Wiz can do with an arcane orb that does twice as much damage but costs nearly all of my AP to cast, or one that i can spam nearly non stop that only does 50% damage. Let me see if i can survive with every single stat point in my main stat and none in vit for uber glass cannon. Maybe have it so you can only change 2 skills every 48 hours or something to stop being going nuts. Maybe completing events and quests in Inferno could unlock more customization options.

[sifuedition]

TL;DR
I can live with the game as it is, if the items were done differently. I think playing the game "as designed" would be fine if you make it rewarding. Otherwise, you have to change the entire design so that player goals are different.

I would say that about every 6-12 hours I should find something better for me. Not a lot better, just better. Screw the AH. Screw the "economy". Give me a game that feels rewarding with the appropriate time invested. I played with an open mind to begin with. My wizard hit 60 with maybe 60 hours played. About the time I hit 100 hours played, I started to wonder why I felt like I was "making" myself play. Then it suddenly hit me, "I'm not wearing anything I've found". Another 80 or so hours and still not wearing anything I've found and no items worthy of the AH to speak of.

Decided I didn't care for drop hydra and run like a wussy, so starting working on my barb. Hit 60 with about 50 hours played. Up to 90 hours played on him now and still not wearing anything I've found.

I've actually tried to not use the AH on my barb. Bought upgrades that felt necessary to progress in hell because they were cheap and all slots were > 10 levels behind (actually did this on my wiz too but that was less focused intent and more lack of gold as I was working on vendors). Hit 60 and grinding without the AH. Eventually, this weekend, saw I was sitting at 1 million gold with no AH sales to boost that and finally gave in to buy two upgrades. Cost almost all of that million to upgrade 2 pieces of that iLvl 52/55 stuff.

So, basically, I never get to have any small wins to keep me trying for those uber pieces. I wouldn't mind spending tons of hours trying for a Stormshield if I could actually ID some lesser usable shields in the meantime. This game is not designed that way and I think that's why the endgame is not working as designed. If it did work that way, 7 million players x % of poop-sockers = flooded AH/RMAH. I don't see that as a bad thing if the play is rewarding to the playerbase. Blizz obviously does see that as a problem. So AH wins, players lose.

Alternatively, you can change the paradigm so that the goal is not unlocking "hard" content (read gear-blocked). If you change that paradigm, there are tons of ways to make the endgame work.

[Ace_wanderer]

i would have done anything other than the boring as hell D2 so called end game. what D3 offers is far from perfect but its way better than what d2 had. not sure what a "good" end game would be in a ARPG like this. what have other games done? i have a feeling that no matter what was offered it would have been bashed by a majority anyway

That's why D2 has lasted 12 years, genius observation, truly brilliant except you happened to ignore the facts.

I would have eliminated Inferno, 3 difficulties is the right number. I would have added more events similar to the pandemonium event, this is on top of a proper build/item system.

[Inntinn]

What OP says sounds exactly like I would want it and would have expected it.
I am not sure why they did not implement it like this seeing as D2 had it close to right afaik.
Maybe they will with the next of second expansion but that will take a year minimum I'm afraid.

Still, what OP says and in addition:

- Lose NV stack on death
- NO drops on a specific rare or pack when you die once
- Every rare or pack killed without dying (in a group without anyone dying) will have you gain NV again (still capped at 5) AND some EXPERIENCE with a levelcap of 5 so you are rewarded with only ilvl63 items (just blues and yellows) and gain a little advantage over others before the expansion comes out. The expansion should start with an only little bit easier version of the described endgame with like now Inferno Act1 a reasonable chance on dropping ilvl61-63 items but the entire map (start) can be skipped by the heroes that are already at clvl65 to progress to the new, one extra act. Expansion can take a charcter from 60(65) to 75 in 3 difficulties with an additional endgame like the one described before that can optionally take you to 80 before yet the next expansion.

[Apocalypse]

At least D2 has an end game. D3 does not have one until pvp patch has come.

d2 had the same end game that d3 has, kill monsters for loot. only 2 things are different now,

in d2 people could endlessly kill the same stupid boss forever trying to gain a few pointless levels
in d3 you have more area to "hunt" in and find items

That's why D2 has lasted 12 years, genius observation, truly brilliant except you happened to ignore the facts.

d2 lasted 12 years cause there was nothing else out there. titan quest? please. if they released d3 6 years ago d2 would not have gone 12 years. if you think d2 lasted 12 years simply cause you could do the same exact small piece of content over and over again you are crazy

also, and this is a big one that i know many wont agree with but, d2 was more popular cause it was far easier. people want to just destroy everything in front of them without ever dying. now that people have been getting killed, and alot, people hit the forums to cry about d3

[KimiFerrari]

Levels.

They are a steady bar of progression that you could easily track and feel a sense of accomplishment even if you didn't finish the level. It is also independent of RNG effects; unlike the item grind. You may do 20 runs and feel no progression because you got crappy drops, and you have no idea where the light at the end of the tunnel is, but with a slow and gradual progression you always feel like your heading in the right direction, no matter how long it takes.

I understand why they wanted lvl 60 and easy to reach caps (PVP and expansions), but there should have been some extra leveling feature implemented.

I do like some of Kripp's "champion level" ideas . Maybe adding reduce identifying time to that list he suggested, open up extra acts or bosses in one game, so on....