Why the current resist system sucks, and how it should changeder=0>

**WhiteGiant** · 02-07-2012, 13:17

Originally Posted by Apocalypse

The need to stack resist all is a bit annoying but really if they lowered the need for it people would find a new stat that must be stacked. The biggest issue with it is how much it costs. I sold some gloves this weekend on the RMAH that had 80 resist all on them. Now if they nerfed it that guy who just bought them probably would be pretty pissed off

the consense is that single resist affixes should be buffed ; not that the game should be nerfed to account for horrible itemization.

as i said a single resist affix can only go up to 60 points whereas all resist can go up to 80. and both of those affixes have the same Affix budget. that makes no sense at all. for one affix i can gain 60 reistance points and for the the other 480 resistance points ?

it appears to me that the whole design intention and logic was to keep the Monks Passive "One with Everything" In check , nothing else and nothing deeper .... none the less ; i think that this is a stupid design decision ; instead of changing a single passive for the monk to work differently they **** up a huge branch of the entire Itemization ? Even as a Monk it isn't really fun because you are always locked in your single resistance...

i mean the whole itemization is full with unreasonably high RNG-ranges and glaringly Overpowered affixes which makes stuff like ; Pick up radius , healthglobe heal , heal after kill , Thorn damage and horribly designed skill affixes pale in comparison. and this is not even about specialization or play-style these affixes are just inherently bad and uninterresting and offer no synergy with other affixes or skills.

Originally Posted by RazeBarb

I think lots of resists are one of the core mechanics of Diablo. Remember how fast you went down in D2 Hell without resists.

thats not the problem here ; affixes worked differently in d2 and it was easier to stack Resistance. also charms made it very easy to fill gaps. Also increase in EHP in D2 was not linear. and described a rather strange curve in EHP.

EG d2. Hell difficulty. (-100%):
+25= +14,3% EHP
+50= +33,3% EHP
+75= +60,2% EHP
+100= +100% EHP
+125= +133% EHP
+150= +300% EHP
+175= +800% EHP
+180= +900% EHP
+185= +1233% EHP
+190= +1899% EHP
+195= +3899% EHP

whereas the increase in d3 is Linear across the board

300 resistance = +100% EHP
600 resistance = +200% EHP etc....

so generally speaking its not even like you can reach breaking points its just a plain and simple mechanism = the more the better ..

**BlackAdder** · 02-07-2012, 13:49

Originally Posted by Moonfrost
Alternatively, nerf all res significantly so that the current single resist values are competetive, but that would mean tampering with people's items (nerfing) and Blizzard apparently doesn't want that.

They have done it with IAS so I don't think this is any different. Might be unpopular if done the second time though.

I think it can't get much more unpopular anyway . . . . and (way) more important: if it's for the generald good of the game than so be it, unhappy players or not, the important thing is to make this game better so that people will still want to play it in 3 years from now (good game = continuing growth of (new) happy players = more money for blizz = everyone happy).

**konfeta** · 02-07-2012, 15:47

so generally speaking its not even like you can reach breaking points its just a plain and simple mechanism = the more the better ..

Looking at the D2 progression, you could say that ten times as hard in relation to the Diablo 2 system.

The main issue with Diablo 3 resists is that it exists for sake of allowing 150k+ damage hits in Inferno, and it is distributed over almost every item slot, which means most builds are forced to burn an affix slot on it on most pieces of gear. It's basically a progression/gearcheck mechanic when we already have 3 of those stuffed into the gearing question (armor, vitality, primary stat are already omnipresent.)

**droppin** · 02-07-2012, 17:19

You can't keep the monk's passive in check besides diminishing returns and low armor. According to the max stat spreadsheet, from Incgamers, monks can get like 1620 resist all. The closest other people could come is 990. That's not to say monks are omg op because the diminishing returns is HUGE. My monk only has like 5k armor and adding another 400 barely does .3 added protection. Besides the monk is losing tons of other stats for those perfect items that all have to be a certain resistance.

**WhiteGiant** · 02-07-2012, 18:11

Originally Posted by droppin

You can't keep the monk's passive in check besides diminishing returns and low armor. According to the max stat spreadsheet, from Incgamers, monks can get like 1620 resist all. The closest other people could come is 990. That's not to say monks are omg op because the diminishing returns is HUGE. My monk only has like 5k armor and adding another 400 barely does .3 added protection. Besides the monk is losing tons of other stats for those perfect items that all have to be a certain resistance.

Diminsihing-returns is a myth for people who have never wrapped their head around EHP ... Armor and Resistance scale exactly linear in EHP . adding 100 resistance to 0 will be as efficient as adding 100 resistance to 1000. though there is also a synergetic correlation between Armor and resistance, which makes it most effective to keep Armor : Resistance 10 : 1 in balance. though from an Item budget perspective All resist is cheaper than Armor so it will be hard to impossible to keep that ratio without artificially hampering with ones gear composition in a negative faishon.

and of course you could be able to keep One with Everything in check. but obviously you would need to overhaul the entire mechanism of the passive skill. and you might even need to add *gasp* complexity and depth to it ...

generally speaking i would also advice for diminishing returns if single resist affixes get ~4-5 times stronger.

maybe an decrease in EHP for every 300 resistance of 15% starting from 600 Resist.
so the increase in EHP would look something like this:

300 resist = 100% EHP
600 resist = 200% EHP
900 resist = 285% EHP instead of 300
1200 resist= 355% EHP instead of 400
1500 resist= 410% EHP instead of 500

i also would incur a penalty on physical resistance on affixes of about ~30% as it is the predominant damage type in the game.

**droppin** · 03-07-2012, 02:56

Ya I have no idea what you just wrote, but all I know...is when I had 0 resist and got 300 the bonus was huge, when I went from 300 to 500 it was way smaller, and now that i'm at 800 extra resistance barely moves my less damage taken. Same thing with armor for my barb. Since we can't get 100% less damage taken using either method isn't that diminishing returns? EHP sounds to much like bogus accounting where you have the whole finished goods crap. The one with like 5 goods accounts and you debit/credit the other accounts even though they don't actually exist irl, it's just made up accounting stuff to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

i'm sure I'm getting EHP wrong but, to me, it's way overcomplicating something that can be done in your head and doesn't need a spreadsheet to work out. Like my druid's tanking. Bear hafs meny armorz!

**AnimeCraze** · 03-07-2012, 03:31

EHP is effective hit point, which is calculated as 1 / (1 - DR/100), and is the correct way to look at life. In D3, this number goes up linearly with the armor/resist rating. With the old D2 system, this number gets more than exponentially better. For example, in D2, let's take your char to have 1000hp, and a lightning bolt of an enemy hits for exactly 100 damage.

At -100 resist, you take 5 hit and you die.
At 0 resist, you take 10 hits before you die.
At 50 resist, you take 20 hits before you die.
At 75 resist, you take 40 hits before you die.
At 95 resist, you take freaking 200 hits before you die.

I would argue that EHP is the "simple" way of looking at things, since it's the metric to compare when you want to see how long a character lasts.

**droppin** · 03-07-2012, 15:54

Then the in game tooltip must be wrong. How can I take x number of extra hits when my less damage taken only goes up say, 1%?

**WhiteGiant** · 03-07-2012, 16:18

Originally Posted by droppin

Then the in game tooltip must be wrong. How can I take x number of extra hits when my less damage taken only goes up say, 1%?

because the comparison screen is utter garbage it doesn't consider EHP it does just consider your increases one addition at a time,

if you'd go from 99% to 100% mitigation through resistance ( which is impossible btw ) it would still only tell you that your defence is increased by 1% even though you have technically become invulnerable.