Lawmaker Barred After Vagina Comment.

[jmervyn]

You clearly have too little experience of these issues if you think that children or spouses will simply "run away" when subjected to verbal abuse. Perhaps they will, eventually. but in all but a tiny minority of cases, they do it only after irreparable emotional harm has been done. And yes, I am talking about non-physical, verbal-only abuse.

My own parents could qualify as verbally or emotionally abusive. I'm still not buying; I tend to agree with Bob (which sickens) and believe that "eye of the beholder" hand-wringing is not valid grounds. Now, I became quite independent and self-reliant at a very early age, and I don't doubt that my heartless Libertarianism is in no small part due to viewing the blatant hypocrisy of Leftism up close & personal, but that still doesn't mean that I place blame for my actions on others.

Would it have been nice to have sweeter parents? Sure, and it would have been nice to have both of them be bazillionaires and to have had a pet pony as a three-year-old. If you are of the opinion that the State will do a better job of raising a child than even screwed-up parents will, I have a host of messed up kids to display for your viewing pleasure.

The spouse or child at the receiving end is not protected in any way, legally, and has little or no recourse to emergency sheltering, unlike those suffering physical abuse.

Again, the problem is not so simple; because you are considering the situation from the "eye of the beholder", then just about anything that is said or done might be considered as damaging to a child. How do you think the entire "self esteem" educational dogma got started? Dr. Spock & others taught a bunch of foolish leftist parents that you could apply only "McGregor's Theory Y" to kids and raise them well. The best quip I've heard in response to this idiocy is that serial killers have great self esteem.

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Whilst I too am sickened at the thought of you agreeing with Bob, I entirely "get" what is being said - children and abused spouses suffer purely verbal abuse because they choose to do so. However, the answer put forward, "running away", is not possible for many people in that situation. Not possible for them - in the same way that it is not possible for someone with no legs to "run away" - they simply are not equipped to do so. The reasons are emotional and/or financial.

Courts, the law ... even well-meaning friends ... cannot wave a magic wand put the victim into a better place nor put the bad guy in his place. The victim has to see it for themselves. Sometimes after many months of gentle coaxing.

I'm not arguing that the courts should do this - I'm simply asking people with the gumption to get themselves out of the **** that they spare a damned bloody thought for those who are incapable of doing so, or of doing so without the help of a friend.

I grew up in an abusive and violent home environment. I understand the helplessness of people suffering the same as I did, just as I understand those folks who have managed to remove themselves from such an environment - as I did, by standing up for myself with no one helping me.

Just thinking of others is all, as horrible a prospect as that may seem.

[jmervyn]

However, the answer put forward, "running away", is not possible for many people in that situation. Not possible for them - in the same way that it is not possible for someone with no legs to "run away" - they simply are not equipped to do so. The reasons are emotional and/or financial.

Again, I'm not accepting the argument. I fully understand what you're saying vis a vis children, but I don't believe in the myth of helplessness. People aren't slaves, and if I have to hear one more Lifetime movie depicting a woman that "stands by her man" when he's a thug, I'll scream. One human may be quite inferior to another, but that doesn't mean they need to sit quietly and take constant ragging from their spouse. People make choices, and dealing with an unpleasant person is one of them.

Women can and do become abuse junkies, and children that grow up in abusive households tend to be abusive themselves; I'm not arguing that part. I have some vile, reprehensible, thieving in-laws who typify that stereotype. However, I still will not agree that someone sticking with a nasty spouse, or a child sticking with a malicious parent, has anyone to blame but themselves nor that the issue is of the same level as physical abuse.

Just thinking of others is all, as horrible a prospect as that may seem.

Sure, but the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Quantifying verbal offense as "abuse" is one step down the same road where we see militant Islam being able to demand speech codes.

[BobCox2]

What I said was for adults.

Kid's are victims of adults in this area and this is serious as they often can't escape without other adults helping.

It's pretty easy to spot and correct if you live in a decent community IMHO.

[jmervyn]

It's pretty easy to spot and correct if you live in a decent community IMHO.

True enough, and obviously kids have a harder time escaping given their dependent nature. That's where my "shaming" assertion plays a role; a self-policing community will ostracize someone verbally abusive (though the physically abusive are frequently secretive in their acts).

[Buffinator]

If you can't say Vagina then you shouldn't be able to say Penis either.

[krischan]

I just tried to say both and... success!

Regarding the typical (German) vulgar variants. I waited until my work colleague left for a coffee, however, so that was only a partial success.

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

For some reason, I seem to know Russian vulgar variants of each.

Really useful ... why is my head full of garbage?

[Stevinator]

I just tried to say both and... success!

Regarding the typical (German) vulgar variants. I waited until my work colleague left for a coffee, however, so that was only a partial success.

the point was that those are the non-vulgar variants, so i don't think she swore, and it certainly wasn't the first badly constructed speech in congress.


Also, welcome Buffinator!