high crit arcane kiting. celestial vs tap the source vs obliterationo

[peret]

hello all,

ive been using celestial rune for arcane orb ever since i switched to arcane kiting and found it very effective, specially now that i was able to get 33% cc / 150%+ crit damage.

i was thinking of how to improve my build and i was wondering what are other people's experiences using obliteration (high dmg that you only need to cast it once or at most twice to kill white enemies) or tap the source (cast more times for more crit chances).

also, when celestial passes through enemies, does each collision have a chance to crit? (i.e. with 5 enemies 3 crits & 2 dont, vs all or nothing phenomenon? i never really paid attention to it because i just see yellow numbers and im happy already and not sure if its hydra or actually orb passing thru multiple enemies.

Here are pro's and cons:

OBLITERATION
- can finish off most enemies with high dps
- better against single targets
- effective against shielding
- maybe too much dmg against reflect w/o good life regen
- no need for temporal flux (specially if you use venom hydra)
- gear dependent. really need high dps (not artifically stacked with IAS) to really have an effect of 1-2 hitting most common enemies

TAP THE SOURCE
- more chance to crit
- more damage/efficient against single targets or those that tend to spread out (elites)
- also usable against groups as you can cast it more times
- good synergy w/ temporal if you can spam it 5 times, specially with arcane hydra

CELESTIAL
- more chance to crit (assuming chance to crit on every collision)
- more damage against groups, specially those lined up in a straight line. better synergy w/ temporal flux
- effective against invulnerable / shielding
- bad for single targets, or those that are spread out. drains AP fast.

[magicrectangle]

Tap the source and obliteration are 33% proc coefficient, celestial is 20% proc coefficient. In practical terms, for procing critical mass, tap the source is by far the best rune. It has the same coefficient as obliteration, but you can cast 75% more orbs, getting 75% more critical mass procs.

Yes every monster that celestial hits has a chance to crit, and a 20% chance that that crit gives a critical mass proc, but you can throw 75% more tap the source orbs, and they have a 33% chance to proc critical mass. So, unless you (on average) hit 2.9 times as many targets with celestial orb, tap the source will be better for procing critical mass. (that's 35/20*33/20)

[konfeta]

In practical terms, most of your CM procs will come from shooting large crowds or using Magic Missile. From that perspective, Nova/Celestial are best.

Tap the Source is deceptive. If you have good AP on crit, shooting large crowds refills your AP as you shoot even the 35 AP orbs. It may be mathematically more efficient, but you need to consider the geometry of it. Regular orb AoE is absolute trash compared to Nova/Celestial.

Obliteration... meh. It's not there for CM proccing, it's there for speeding up elite pack kills. I feel that Blizzard undertuned it's damage boost.

[peret]

Hey guys, i actually dont use critical mass but i assume that the proc percentages of CM is the same for AP on crit. i was just wondering on how i could maximize dmg output in the long run by simply spamming orbs as much as possible w/ minimal wait time for AP to refill.

I tried it out today and I have to agree w/ konfeta.

Although tap the source gives you more orbs to cast, celestial deals more damage in the long run because it seems like it's less likely to miss. the radius seems bigger as well so you are bound to hit something. moreover, its better for kiting because in the long run you dont even have time to cast all 5 when facing elites.

I got ~20AP on crit from hat + source and i think I this is a good solution to basically not have to wait for AP for celestial to cast.

for regular mobs, cast 3 celestial orbs, then seeker missile, watch AP go up, then cast celestials again if enemies are still far away. it really made me clear mobs way way faster.

for elites tho, same as before. cast 3 celestial orbs then run. no need for seeker as your AP will fill up anyway while running.

the radius of obliteration is too small for me, and if i miss, thats a huge dmg reduction.

I know you can also get AP on crit with wand to get it to ~30, but it seems like thats overkill and you would be paying much more for that weapon, and perhaps for people w/ a budget crit dmg is more important for weapon.

tl;dr
celestial orb does more dmg. AP regen problem solved with 20 AP on Crit mods (from hat&source) w/ high crit chance.

[FireIceTalon]

Tap the Source owns all. I used to swear by Nova, but I found the extra AoE was NOT worth the higher resource cost, but that could just be due to my style of play. But yea, I am a strong advocate for TtS.

[magicrectangle]

Hey guys, i actually dont use critical mass but i assume that the proc percentages of CM is the same for AP on crit.

Yes, AP on crit uses the same proc coefficients as critical mass.

[konfeta]

Tap the Source is indeed awesome (I love it on a 2 hander or when I am on an 80 pool. It also is much more fitting for a no signature build), but it's an overall question of how you offset the AP drain.

[Localgod]

I think what people are saying is, try it out and see if it works for you. I went back to a1 last night to try out some arcane build stuff last night. I like it so much better than venom/blizzard, it's not even funny. That said, the gear requirements are quite different. I switched back and forth between tap the source and celestial while I played solo. I don't have the crit/crit damage and ap on crit gear I need yet to fully test things out, but I will say that I preferred the celestial in situations where the mobs would die in one or two hits (like a1 solo) and the TtS when I needed to pump out more orbs and manage a higher hp battlefield (like a2/a3 with 2 or 3 players).

Of course, all of that is based on managing a pool of ap that's simply not sufficient for the multiplayer landscape until I gear up some. I think the choice is going to come down to situation and gear. That is to say, the decision is more individual than a simple straight answer. (In which case, gg Blizzard! You got the balance right!)

Edit: Oh! another thing to consider is that celestial orb can hit the SAME target multiple times. If those crit, do they have a chance to proc? No idea.

[konfeta]

I think it can only do it twice (when orb passes through and on detonation). But, yeah, the explosion counts again I believe.

Using Celestial Orb's detonation is actually very easy and useful once you get the hang of it. The most straighforward way to do it is to shoot it at max range (great when kiting with teleport or against slow targets in general. An easy way to use terrain is to use stairs when you shoot down the stairs, it always explodes right when it reaches the lower level floor. The hardest way I find is to use walls because it's not exactly simple to get enemies to stand next to those without using other skills.