Where is Ravharu when he is needed? I want to pick a fight with somebody!
In theory, Inferno is better than D2 boss runs. However in practice it is not, the issue is the piss poor difficulty setting, uneven gameplay and awful and i mean AWFUL itemization. So whereas Diablo 2 had a more rigid and boring endgame at least the gear was exciting, loot felt important.Do you think inferno is better end-game than d2s boss runs and special event like ubers that were eventually added?
When you get several rares in Act 3 in Inferno that are sub level 59 items is the exact moment that enough is enough and you log off. It is beyond demoralizing to fight and defeat poorly designed packs just to get a gigantic middle finger.
RMAH will speed up the process for those that chose to use it. Again in practice D3 should be better right? Because legendaries (lol) and set (lol) drop far less and are more randomized than in D2, meaning a good legendary weapon (after the buff patch) will be super rare that this will somehow make people play longer.Will the item hunt last nearly as long as in d2 with the auction house and items being a little less diverse?
However in reality it pisses people off that throughout 4 difficulty settings they *MAY* get 1-3 legendaries and that is if they are lucky and chances are 99.995% that those items are complete garbage and have no use in Inferno.
This should not even be up for debate, D2 by a ******* mile.Which skill system do you prefer?
They basically did the same to WoW, where, for some strange reason they figured that talent trees were dull, then they took out a bunch of skills there for no reason and shoehorned people into specs in Cataclysm. Now they are changing it again.
Let me ask a question: When has anyone, in D2 or WoW ever complained about the goddamn talent tree? Show me a ****** topic among the millions who bought Diablo 2 and millions who bought WoW where 1 goddamn person whined about the talent tree?
It is a classic "if it aint broke, dont fix it". In D2, your character is *YOUR* characer. In D3 its just a template
Dont care about PvP in these kind of games, Virtua Fighter and Street Fighter sure, this? NoDo you think that the PvP will greatly help the games longevity, and do u prefer it to the d2 dueling system?
Enjoyment in these kind of loot games is often "addiction". Am i as addicted to D3 as i was to D2? No, that has everything to do with the loot. The gear in Diablo 3 is just not exciting, nothing ever good drops and buying items on the AH is just not particularly exciting.Are you enjoying playing d3 as much as d2?
The Auction House is the game, Diablo 3 is merely a paint job. You arent farming exciting loot and anticipating your next great drop, instead you are farming gold so you can buy generic items for your, say Barb, that have All Res, Vit and Str, its very generic and dull.
Lets be fair and not count Ubers that were added way later than Vanilla. Right now its a toss for me, D2 endgame is more fun but it's too grindy (as in always the same boss). D3 is better in theory but right now its sucks and needs to be fixed for it to become fun.Do you think inferno is better end-game than d2s boss runs and special event like ubers that were eventually added?
No. Even with the AH, D3 items just suck.Will the item hunt last nearly as long as in d2 with the auction house and items being a little less diverse?
D3, for the usual reasons. If inferno didn't suck that much we could still have the diversity of builds we had in Hell difficulty and I like having to remake my template on the fly etc.Which skill system do you prefer?
I doubt it will greatly help. D2 PvP suck big time, we'll see if they do something good in D3. But strangely I think it will suck too.Do you think that the PvP will greatly help the games longevity, and do u prefer it to the d2 dueling system?
Yeah kinda but for totaly different reasons. Well, D2 for me has better longetivity but is less fun on average. D3 on the other hand I had a great amount of fun from normal to Hell but then it just suck... So in other words, the first phase of the game I preffer D3, the second phase (farming) I preffer D2.Are you enjoying playing d3 as much as d2?
Well I really think they should not have got rid of the Mystic. Such customization really lacks in the game right now. Reworking legendaries is good but it wont be sufficient, the whole item system is at fault.Do you think the revamping of crafting and legendarys will help the item diversity, or should something like the runeword system be implemented?
For me permanence doesnt encourage customization, it encoourages cookie cutter. Right now D3 inferno has a garbage customization because of its difficulty and unbalances among skills. I dont like D2 customization method either. D3 has potential but its dormant right now.Char customization, better in d2 or d3? I feel once great items are cheap and easily available optimal builds will be used quite a bit, I know this was the case in d2 also but it took quite a while to get max gear, and you could never have every skill maxed making players even with similar builds slightly different, but in d2 anyone can jus change their build at any time. And I don't think the valor system is enough to encourage people to stick with a build since once its gone your free to switch without penalty.
They have to make the blacksmith worthwhile in Inferno. But sadly they probably wont. Yes crazy inflation is on the move.Gold sinks, we know gold was worthless in d2, but are we on that same track here? With very very few gold sinks d3 is going to have crazy innflation problems I think. One idea I like for a gold sink is a decent gold cost to switch skills out once you hit lvl 60 and have unlocked everything.
Yeah. Rune points to allocate in what rune you want to unlock would have been better than this onrail path they force on us. I still don't think D2 levels matter after a while really.One of my biggest drawbacks from d3 is the lvl progression, it just feels kinda pointless. I mean I know you unlock skills and runes as you go but when I lvled up in d2 I felt like I became more powerful in a way that suited my playstyle by picking my own attributes and skill points.
inferno needs a lot of work thats for sure but imo its way better than boss runs from d2. that was the most boring excuse for end game ever imo. there was no way they could make a worse end game
Just want to innocently pick at this comment.Originally Posted by Karamo
Does popular = better?
I like Diablo 3 as a Diablo clone game.
In that respect, I think they succeeded quite well. The controls are something I still fight with, but the content is good and will only get better.
As a Diablo sequel, I think it fails miserably. Granted even Max Schaefer was saying how it was an impossible expectation to fill. Yet, their current game design for TL2 tells me that they are still aiming to fill it... So I think what he really meant was, it's impossible to fulfill if you:
- Don't have the original design docs
- Don't have the original player feedback
- Don't have the "experience" of making the previous Diablos (probably the biggest part, since there's always lots of little tricks and things you learn after making something... twice)
I think the thing that's missing is character progression. In D2, you can see that progression. With multishot for example, you'd get x amount of additional arrows per skill level. I think that's what motivated people to level up. And when they max out their chars, they have their items to take it further. In D3, we have it, but its far more limited compared to D2. Also item diversity is missing. Everything feels so generic. I think that's what made D2 so addictive. There was always a way to improve.
Also, skill trees or no skill trees, it still ends up with people using the same builds. I've had my eye on the same build from the get go, I've only been using different skills until I've unlocked the ones that I wanted to use all along. It doesn't matter, there will be builds that are just more alpha. I hardly find myself in a scenario where I needed to change things up. But then again, I'm only in act 4 Hell.
Other things they need to change: annoying voice overs. Once we've completed the quests once, we don't give a damn about all voice overs, animations, cut scene sequences. So please blizzard, allow us to mute these people (especially in Act 2 with that EXTREMELY annoying guy whose stuck in the barrel who won't STFU).
Also, I don't like how they took elements from a Mario game and threw it in there. In the Diablo world, we shouldn't have to wait for the firewall to clear to cross the bridge, that's damn annoying. The monsters should be the resistance, but I think it works well in boss fights. Just not when you're getting from place to place regularly.
They also need to fix the social aspect of D3. D2 felt like a MMO because of how sociable things were. They need to fix that. The chat channels in particular are SO BAD. When you leave a game, they should have the chat channel fill the majority of the screen. And I wish they could display everyone's character at the bottom like in D2. Also, they need to put in customizable chat channels. I want to go in a channel specifically looking for people who want to group up for a Whimsyshire run (just like the cow channel in D2). (yeah yeah, I know they don't want people to run certain bosses or areas, but still, that doesn't mean you should remove customizable chat channels).
In the Auction House it shouldn't be hard to see the stats of the item that you recently sold. And we should have the opportunity to cancel an auction we put up. I think they should limit it to cancelling auctions that haven't been bidded on yet.
Last edited by bazinga; 18-06-2012 at 01:05.
@hotdogtesting: Your FF6 Avatar is both horrible and absolutely fantastic. I love it.
Do you think inferno is better end-game than d2s boss runs and special event like ubers that were eventually added?
So, far, I like the concept of Inferno as an end game. Regardless of flaws in the gear and ppl being able to literally buy their way through, I think this is a better end game concept.
Will the item hunt last nearly as long as in d2 with the auction house and items being a little less diverse? I have a love/hate for the AH. Ultimately, the fun is in using the items a bit more than obtaining them (which is fun too, but, when push comes to shove, its actually using them thats more fun).
Which skill system do you prefer?
I like D2s system better. It kept me coming back for more and being excited to keep rerolling which I think is a good thing. Hmm, now I’ll make a Hammerdin, now I’ll make a FOH pally, hmm, I wonder what a pally with max charge/frenzy could do! It just kept the game fun on all levels and added experimentation to the game.
Do you think that the PvP will greatly help the games longevity, and do u prefer it to the d2 dueling system?
I’m not sure what exactly they’re doing with it. I will say that, I will not be interested in dueling/fighting anyone with purchased items. The only solution I can think to this is IF items bought with real money were “marked” and everyone could be inspected. That way if i lose to a bunch of purchased items I could just be like, good duel dude, but, we know why you won.
Are you enjoying playing d3 as much as d2?
Sure. I can’t stop, for all its pros and cons, i’m lovin it.
Do you think the revamping of crafting and legendarys will help the item diversity, or should something like the runeword system be implemented?
It make take some time to balance out the items and some experimentation on everyones part but – changing the stats is a step in the right direction.
Char customization, better in d2 or d3? I feel once great items are cheap and easily available optimal builds will be used quite a bit, I know this was the case in d2 also but it took quite a while to get max gear, and you could never have every skill maxed making players even with similar builds slightly different, but in d2 anyone can jus change their build at any time. And I don't think the valor system is enough to encourage people to stick with a build since once its gone your free to switch without penalty.
I like both really. If I had to pick one, i have to go with D2. I wanna kick *** as a DH because I chose to dump points in dex not cause I farmed more or purchased more. (Just using DH as an example).
Gold sinks, we know gold was worthless in d2, but are we on that same track here? With very very few gold sinks d3 is going to have crazy innflation problems I think. One idea I like for a gold sink is a decent gold cost to switch skills out once you hit lvl 60 and have unlocked everything.
The best way to counter inflation is make more and more and more items so that there are 1000s and people can hardly keep track of what’s “best” and people will just spend gold on what the need the most for thier build. Some gold sinks can just get plain annoying if they are engineered just to be gold sinks. For example, raising the cost of repair is simply annoying to me and not something I wanna spend any decent sum of gold on anyway.
At this point in time, I am enjoying the fact gold is worth something.
Well it's not exactly fair to compare LoD to the current version of the game. You kinda of bring that up yourself, but yeah, LoD added a ton of polish, new systems, updates, items, content, etc. It's hard to compare the doom and gloom opinions of D3 barely over a month in to a full expansion of Diablo 2.
Do you think inferno is better end-game than d2s boss runs and special event like ubers that were eventually added?
Generally, yes. In D2 the loot was the main end game, but I always hated that by the time you got the best gear, there was nothing new to do with it. I won't include things like the ubers because they were added much much later compared to where we are with D3 right now.
Inferno isn't perfect by any means, but they're working on balance still, and it's nice to get those elite items and have them mean something.
Will the item hunt last nearly as long as in d2 with the auction house and items being a little less diverse?
Probably not. It's going to be much easier now to deck your character out with the best of the best gear. But again, in D2 classic, there wasn't much available either, so it wasn't hard to get the best stuff back then either. With revamped legendaries coming, and the eventual expansion(s), perhaps there will be a much better item hunt in the long run.
The NV system is great. It makes farming everywhere much more useful, especially once 1.03 comes out. It's nice that you're guaranteed something that *could* be useful every kill after 5 stacks. Not endless Meph runs where he drops two blues and a mana potion.
Which skill system do you prefer?
D3 by far. The number of useful skills far exceeds D2. The combinations of different skills makes for different fun builds, and I've found multiple points where I'm torn between which skills I want to use. I also love that the level 1 skills are fun, useful, and as useful at the end of the game as they were in the beginning. It was terrible being mostly useless until at least the mid-20's for most D2 classes.
Do you think that the PvP will greatly help the games longevity, and do u prefer it to the d2 dueling system?
Greatly, i don't know about that, but it will help. It's another activity to do within the game, and the deathmatch style sounds potentially like a lot of fun. It's hard to compare it to D2 since Duels were mostly who got the first hit and that was the end. If they were properaly balanced, D2 duels could compete, but otherwise in their state, no.
What will be nice with PvP is everyone will probably be utilizing different build from PvE as well. Keep characters fresh.
Are you enjoying playing d3 as much as d2?
Do you think the revamping of crafting and legendarys will help the item diversity, or should something like the runeword system be implemented?
Probably, but not by a ton. From the sounds of it, Legendaries will at least be competitive with rares now. They won't be like runewords or even uniques before the OP runewords, but it's at least something else to strive for. Hopefully with paatches or at least by the expansion, the items will be a little more diverse. By in large though I do like the rare system as it is now, and that they can be total crap, or amazing depending on the roll.
Char customization, better in d2 or d3? I feel once great items are cheap and easily available optimal builds will be used quite a bit, I know this was the case in d2 also but it took quite a while to get max gear, and you could never have every skill maxed making players even with similar builds slightly different, but in d3 anyone can jus change their build at any time. And I don't think the valor system is enough to encourage people to stick with a build since once its gone your free to switch without penalty.
I prefer D3. Most of the skills in D2 were useless until synergies, and once they came into play the skills themselves were still useless. They were only useful for pumping up the damage of your main skills. Yes there were some oddball builds that were feasible, but overall it was still pretty cookie cutter.
D3 I like that, even though there are a lot of skills that are "musts"" for each class, there are still a ton of fun options for build diversity, and I like that all the skills feel useful in one way or another.
Gold sinks, we know gold was worthless in d2, but are we on that same track here? With very very few gold sinks d3 is going to have crazy innflation problems I think. One idea I like for a gold sink is a decent gold cost to switch skills out once you hit lvl 60 and have unlocked everything.
Gold to switch skills is a good idea. It would be better than the NV buff to keep players with a particular build for longer. The increase in death penalty will help. The thing is, with the Blacksmith and Jeweler, you only need to level them once and they're maxed out. That removes that portion of the gold sink. The effort to craft a good item from the BS vs just buying the item you want off the AH is far too skewed to make him a useful gold sink. Jeweler is a little better. Since max level jewels will always be sought after, it's a decent enough motivation to use him to cube up gems. Still it's easier to buy one off the AH for only slightly more than you could cube it up, but without the time sink and gem collecting personally.
Really, even though they didnt want to do it, making items soul-bound, or account-bound, or call it whatever you want is one of the only sure fire ways to help. With items never leaving circulation of the economy, gold is always easy to keep piling up. Each upgrade you make you can sell off the old stuff to recoup a portion of your spending. Soul-binding would certainly make gold a much more valuable commodity.
One of my biggest drawbacks from d3 is the lvl progression, it just feels kinda pointless. I mean I know you unlock skills and runes as you go but when I lvled up in d2 I felt like I became more powerful in a way that suited my playstyle by picking my own attributes and skill points.
I agree. While it's fun to see the end and what a character is capable of, there seems to be no real effort in getting to 60. Maybe because everyone rushed their way through the later years of D2 they didnt bother messing with D3, but when you can reach max level in a few days without much real effort, it doesnt feel all that special, or rewarding to hit the cap. Granted having inferno to go through helps a bit, but it makes the game feel really really small.
Don't get me wrong I'm loving d3 so far and have put in probably like 80 hrs allready and just starting a2 inferno. I just can't see the game the way they have it set up currenty lasting nearly as long as d2. Maybe the pvp will help but being non-competitive I don't see it adding too opfmuch longevity to the game. Hopefully they add some interesting thinks in patches and especially expansions, but if the 1st exp is 2 yrs away I'm not sure how much of a fan base will still be too interested at that point.
I agree. The game in general is a blast to play. I've had loads of fun with it, and I enjoy playing most of the classes I've tried so far. Still in the back of my mind I keep worrying about how long the game will hold my interest. Hitting max level so fast, having little to do outside inferno aside from leveling other classes leaves very little motivation to keep playing for a long time. Maybe some of the patches and PvP will help this a bit, but it definitely lingers in my mind that the fun of D3 could flame out really fast. Hopefully the patches, and eventually the EXP will keep the game fun for a long time, but I definitely have my worries.
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