Slow-n-Glow: The Slowing Phantasm build (A1 Inferno)

[Bruja]

How many attacks per second do you have? Phantasm lasts for 5 seconds. If you have 1 attack per second, yes you might only get 3 out. Stacking attack speed with a dagger (1.4 aps base) you can easily get over 2 attacks per second, which easily lets you cast more than 3... Not sure why you're have problems otherwise.

I am using a dagger and have more than 1 attack per second. And other people have confirmed it in this thread. Yes they last 5 seconds, but you can clearly see if you just try to do as many as you can in a line, once you get three, the next one you make will delete the first one you made to keep you at the cap of 3. I have tested this multiple times. If you can screen cap more than 3 identifiable phantasms on the screen at once I would be extremely surprised.

[Thrakhath]

Have you considered Medusa Spiders in this build? Damage is only two thirds that of Splinters, but for half the mana cost, it is also a decent AOE slow.

Love the sound of this build, will definitely give it a try.

[Phillter]

Have you considered Medusa Spiders in this build? Damage is only two thirds that of Splinters, but for half the mana cost, it is also a decent AOE slow.

I hadn't even thought of the spiders. They don't really fit my playstyle so I never use them, but perhaps it is time to break them out.

[werg]

Hi, I play a similar build too!

I used Phantasm previously, however, I switched to Rain of Toads which seem to be more mana effective and does more damage per second.

Phantasm cost 108 mana per cast, deals 45% dmg/sec for 5 secs for 225% total damage.

Rain of Toads cost 34 mana per cast, deals 65% dmg/sec for 2 secs for 130% total damage.

I think the AOE is comparable, and I prefer more damage/sec and a cheaper mana cost over a longer duration!

[Phillter]

Rain of Toads does sound intriguing. However, Phantasm can stack on itself, whereas my understanding is that Rain cannot. I tested the max number of Phantasms a player can have last night and it is certainly 3. So, max DPS you can get is 135% weapon in the area. That is more than double that of the toads. Yes it costs much more mana, but not as much as you may think.

Phantasm: 108 mana * 3 casts = 324 mana every 5 seconds for (45 * 3 = 135)% * 5 = 675% weapon damage total.
Rain of Toads: 34 mana * 2.5 casts = 85 mana every 5 seconds for 65% * 5 = 325% weapon damage total.
Now, if the toads stacked to 3 like Phantasm, that would be great:
Stack of Toads: (34 mana * 3 casts) * 2.5 casts (for 5 sec totals) = 255 mana every 5 seconds for (65 * 3 = 195)% * 5 = 975% weapon damage total

I will be trying out stacking toads tonight to see if they actually stack. The math (which I think is correct, but please tell me if I calculated something wrong) doesn't lie. IF Toads stacks then it is far and away better than Phantasm. The only other thing you would have to factor in is that you only have to recast Phantasm every 5 seconds 3 times. You have to almost constantly be recasting Toads for max effect, meaning squeezing in a Grasp or some Splinters or a ZWall would mean a good sized hit to the DPS, and kiting with Rain would be a nightmare potentially because of the required number of casts over the same 5 second period. If you have a slow weapon this could be a real problem.

If you wanted to completely destroy everything in an area, and depending on your mana regen, toads may be a good primary skill to have. It combined with the Phantasm would really hurt, and both having a targeted area could easily deal with Invulnerable Minion packs.

[Phillter]

As a follow-up to my post yesterday:

It does appear that Rain of Toads stacks. Which means amazing damage! However, while all the math looks good on paper, in practice because of having to refresh the Rain almost constantly to get a good stack up in an area, there isn't much room for moving around during a fight. Which works ok with this build, what with the ZWall and the Grasp. It didn't really fit my playstyle, but it did work quite well. Killing speed seemed to honestly even out with Phantasm. Mana costs seemed much higher for some reason. I was using PtV as a passive to replace Spiritual Attunement (along with Fortitude and Spirit Vessel), but even without PtV it felt like much more mana being spent. Overall I would say they are about equal. Rain gives you slightly more damage, but at the cost of mobility and flexibility in casting. Both work just fine for A1 Inferno, so if you are looking to spice things up a bit and try something new, try out Rain of Toads or Phantasm =)

[werg]

Thanks for the Info!

Was wondering also if there is a difference between % weapon damage done as physical (Phantasm) compared to % weapon damage done as poison (Rain of Toads). I tried both and it seemed as though Physical damage does more damage than poison.

Anyone has any thoughts or information on whether physical or elemental damage is more effective against inferno monsters?

[Phillter]

I haven't noticed a huge difference between Toads and Phantasm. Could just be the enemies you are fighting. The undead in A1 seem to be more resistant to it than some other mobs and the mobs on the way to the butcher (cultists, etc.). Use what works for the mobs you are fighting =)

UPDATE: I got to the Blood quest last night (Burning or desolate sands, forget the area name). I had to use the standard Splinters/kite build and a lot of running to get through the first part of the act, but as soon as I hit the sewers I tried this build again, and it still works like a charm! Oasis was fine too. Had to skip a few packs due to crazy affix combos, but it was mostly smooth going. Been using Toads/Flaming Dart more as of late, but I have a feeling I'll be switching back to Splinters/Phantasm for the rest of the act.

[fsj]

Been using a variant of this build for a while.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#bZUkgR!XbV!aaaZbZ

Stats (roughly as I don't have them to hand):

38k dmg (think around 1920 int)
22k HP
200 all res (roughly)

Can run Zoltun Kulle/Magdha runs no problem w/ 5 stacks and took it into A3 last night to give it a shot. There is a huge amount of kiting required still and I definitely died a few times but managed to get 5 stacks up from the beginning of A3 up till the end of the catapults quest. Leaping spiders works great for any areas fiill with tight corridors and corners and is just a safer personal preference to splinters for me right now. I am yet to reach any runnable A3 bosses yet so can't report on those.

Yes it is very much a fragile set up but so far I have had moderate success. The idea is I can slow and then burn em down before they get to me. With the impending HP nerf to Act 3, this should actually work more successfully.

As a WD I was hoping for pets to be a bit more viable and hopefully that time will come but for now this seems to be working and I personally find it a lot more fun than the VQ/Bears build. If no-one else has beaten me to it in this thread I will report back on the success of this build on A3 boss runs. Apologies if someone already has - I did skim the whole thread but may have missed it! Ideally I would like another 10k dmg before I do that, though.

Edit - Oh and I have no mana problems at all with this build, but I do have roughly +190 to max mana from items.

[werg]

I tried act 3 (siegebreaker) earlier before the server went down and the mobs on the way to the siegebreaker takes more damage from phantasm! On a side note, I didn't manage to reach the siegebreaker as I died too many times! :(

Hope this helps when you are running that area!