spike trap under powered?

[phor]

THere sadly there is no passive for trap build. Numbing is ineffective as a lifesaver, Custom Engineering is for ROTFL.

I didn't find this to be true while leveling up.
I was able to effectively tank my way all the way through nightmare and all the way to act4 of Hell by just including a few life on hit pieces into my gear and dropping as many Caltrops[Jagged Spikes] traps on top of each other as I could combined with Numbing Traps.
Adding Rain of Vengeance on top of that, I really didn't have much trouble tanking my way through most of the game.

It was actually quite a fun playstyle.
Now that I think about it, I probably could have used grenades and spiked traps to go along with the build and used a 1h+shield to make it even more effective... but it worked just fine with a bow+quiver.

Of course it doesn't work AT ALL in inferno even with insanely good tank oriented gear, but while leveling up you can certainly make use of stacks of Jagged Spikes together with a small amount of life on hit and Numbing Traps for a playstyle that doesn't require kiting.

[Matuse]

Elemental feels like I am shooting enemies with spit wads. Your mileage may vary

Cluster Arrow does more per shot, sure.

But elemental arrow fires 5x as many shots (really, more, since you'll regen most of a shot's worth of hatred in that time). Elemental also hits EVERYTHING in the way. One of the things I like the least about Cluster is that it only hits in one little area. If there's a line of monsters (not really far-fetched, when you are kiting), Elemental will spank each and every one of them as they run into it, or it runs into them.

Plus, in order to accurately hit targets with Cluster, you have to move your mouse a hell of a lot more, which is incredibly difficult when you are trying to keep distance between yourself and an elite pack. You can aim elemental perfectly while keeping the pointer in a tight circle around you. A tight circle with cluster means launching clusters right at your own feet and not hitting anything at all.

In summary; Cluster arrow is terrible.

[Sky Tan]

@phor maybe i will trying to out numbing, cos just drop Companion in my build and using JAgged stacking along my scatter.
But probably will have to drop my tactical advantage since steady and archery is almost fixed...unless,,

[EquiLa]

[...]Of course it doesn't work AT ALL in inferno even with insanely good tank oriented gear, but while leveling up you can certainly make use of stacks of Jagged Spikes together with a small amount of life on hit and Numbing Traps for a playstyle that doesn't require kiting.

Its a bit of a tangent to the thread but to what extent did you try it? Stats(since you mention insanely good) and what act? Group or solo?

I'm currently gearing up towards a more tanky demon hunter and I'm curious if anyone else has really tried it and if its at all possible.

[Matuse]

I tried stacking numbing traps with the sentry rune that gives the 15% damage reduction.

I was getting 2 or 3-shotted in A4 Hell. Didn't even bother trying Inferno. Granted this was not with some super tanky build, but it was with ~30% dodge, 45% damage reduction, and resists in the 35% range.

[phor]

Its a bit of a tangent to the thread but to what extent did you try it?

I didn't give it too much effort.
I just used the same gear that got me through tanking Diablo in Hell and was getting virtually 1shot in act1 Inferno with ~45k hp, 50% damage reduction from armor and only around 15% all resist.

However, at that point I already had a Barbarian in Inferno act2 and saw how much damage I was taking even with 9200 armor, ~50% all resist, a shield with 25% block for 4700, and using Threatening Shout.
On top of all that, Barb/Monk have a passive 30% damage reduction that DH doesn't get.

So I just made an assumption from that about its viability.

Instead of saying "it doesn't work in inferno" I should have said "it might work, but it will inevitably cost even more than it does to gear a melee character for the later acts. (which is A LOT)".

To my knowledge, it hasn't really been tried.
If you want to try it, you'll need to know the proc coefficients for DH skills:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Gc&output=html
And you'll need a TON of life on hit gear on top of Armor and Resist All.

[EquiLa]

I didn't give it too much effort.
I just used the same gear that got me through tanking Diablo in Hell and was getting virtually 1shot in act1 Inferno with ~45k hp, 50% damage reduction from armor and only around 15% all resist.

However, at that point I already had a Barbarian in Inferno act2 and saw how much damage I was taking even with 9200 armor, ~50% all resist, a shield with 25% block for 4700, and using Threatening Shout.
On top of all that, Barb/Monk have a passive 30% damage reduction that DH doesn't get.

So I just made an assumption from that about its viability.

Instead of saying "it doesn't work in inferno" I should have said "it might work, but it will inevitably cost even more than it does to gear a melee character for the later acts. (which is A LOT)".

To my knowledge, it hasn't really been tried.
If you want to try it, you'll need to know the proc coefficients for DH skills:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Gc&output=html
And you'll need a TON of life on hit gear on top of Armor and Resist All.

Ye, should have started out by saying that I dont intend to actually "tank" the content like a barbarian. Its more about being able to take a hit or two once in a while and still keep on pushing without the need to kite several rooms back every elitepack. I'm at the point where I can take a hit from practically anything(except those elite skeletons with axes..) in A3 inferno without duying but I still got a few pieces left to upgrade.

Ye, seen those docs before and they were quite helpful.

I've been testing out http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aRkYgS!XeY!ZcbbYc and variations to it and its a quite fun way of playing instead of the regular kite and run sort of thing but its a work in progress.

Currently at 3561 armor, 461 ress (526 physical), ~900 Life on Hit, ~55k Life, ~46k dps with a few upgrades left, mainly Life% and Phys Ress on shoulders / belt and a new weapon as always.

In the end I'm hoping that blizzard will reduce the amount of spike damage overall and make this even more viable but I still feel like it will work quite nicely in a few weeks for now.

[Incompetent]

Spike Trap is a burst damage skill, not a workhorse spam attack. With Scatter the damage per shot is very respectable, but you can only drop it every 1.2 seconds (at best) and sometimes it's difficult to get the mines to explode as soon as they arm, so you should be mixing in other attacks. With the other runes, ST eats too much Hatred to use all the time. That said I've found a few situations where ST is worthwhile even without Scatter:

1. Thinning out densely populated crowds if your AoE is otherwise lacking. Scatter is best, but all versions of ST are actually pretty decent in this role. It's just that they are beaten by various Elemental Arrow runes (+Twin Chakrams, to a lesser extent) that are outright overpowered, so that's what almost everyone uses (EA really ought to cost more than 10 Hatred...).

2. Dumping damage on a key monster, e.g. a summoner/resurrector, that's hidden behind a big horde of cannon fodder. Again, Elemental Arrow variants do this as well, but if your other attacks are the kind that get soaked up by the cannon fodder, you need something that bypasses them.

3. Getting cheap damage in fights you anticipate (some monsters make it easy by boasting before the real fight starts, but it also applies e.g. if you know an area is especially difficult or there's a nasty Elite pack up ahead - lay a minefield some distance away from the front line, recharge Hatred, then lead the monsters into your trap). Bandolier and Long Fuse both do well here.

4. Sometimes I find I can drop mines in places I can't reach with most ranged attacks, due to terrain etc. This means more cheap damage (usually in these situations the monsters can't shoot back from where they are and will take a long time to reach you).

So ST without Scatter is still an OK skill I think, though Scatter is usually the most practical option once it becomes available.

[Lanthanide]

A lot of this thread is from pre-nerf NT discussion.

I have been using Spike Traps ever since I discovered that Ball Lightning was more powerful than Impale, which ended up opening a skill slot for me - this was back in Nightmare difficulty.

Scatter really is by far and away the best rune of the lot, for Inferno anyway. I even got me a cloak with +10% spike trap damage on it. I use it to kill any of the 'tank' monsters (high HP) and of course against any elite or champion packs. It's great to run away, lay down a trap and then stand and shoot BL off the screen towards them as they follow, then once you see the trap go off, retreat further and lay another one. Very low risk strategy, although Vortex / Waller can end your day pretty quickly, and Mortar isn't nice either. But I think those will be affixes that all DH struggle against due to the mobile/ranged nature of the class. Laying down the mines in a natural choke point is ideal as you can easily get the enemies to trigger 2 or sometimes 3 instantly: act 3 fortress stairs are excellent for this.

Really I think spike trap needs to drop to 20 hatred and scatter increase to 40, and probably the damage or range increase for the non-scatter runes (with the idea being that 'scatter' gives you more but weaker ones) so they have a chance to compete with it - certainly bandolier should be +3 mines -50% hatred cost. It'd also be nice if there was a visual cue that the trap was armed: perhaps it can be cast without the coloured glow and the smoke, which both kick in once it's armed?

[Micahwc]

I love scatter, and I hate scatter. Its great in enclosed spaces where the mines all end up next to each other. Its incredibly frustrating when the mines scatter so far apart that they dont hit the same targets. I love it for kiting. I cast it in front of me as I run and then I run the enemies through the mines.