The Myth of Build Variety

[BryanM]

This is just me, but when I first heard about their idea for a "rune system", I thought it a terrible idea. And couldn't understand the hype people on the forums had for it:

* A lot of the runes should have been mods on items. Such as +projectiles for Magic Missile, Toads, Charged Bolt that isn't called Charged Bolt, etc.

* Then they tried to make a specific number of them for every skill. Like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, sometimes it just doesn't work. Hydra in all the colors of the rainbow? That's fine. Bash? How the hell are you going to vary Bash in six different interesting ways?

* They had to overreach on some effects to plug the hole. The monk's teleporting [s]Thunder Horse[/s] Fists of Thunder option is two skills mooshed into one.

* It's a lot of work for a diminishing return on gain. While we all have a few we absolutely adore, the bulk of them are meaningless. If they didn't exist, it would still be the same game. If it meant fewer enemies, fewer overall base skills, less time spent on items; was it worth it?

If you are going to try to sound smart by citing mythology, it helps not to misinterpret the myth. Hope was the gift that made the evils bearable.

No. Hope was the curse that made the impact of the evils even worse.

You can't interrupt old things using your chicken soup for the soul, 21st century hippy logic. I'll take Hesiod's word on it over yours. Or even overhyped blowhard Nietzsche's.

[galzohar]

You can complain all you want, and I agree no system is perfect, but I love this system a lot lot more than the D2 system, and other than balancing out the skills and runes so more options are viable (because let's face it - some rune options and some passives will simply never get used by an educated player, while I believe each one needs to have a place in at least 2 viable builds for it to be considered balanced), I can't really think of much to improve.

[Ixnatifual]

I'm genuinely curious to hear what you think makes it better other than because Blizzard made it. What's superior about a system where everyone has the same skills at the same power available to them and you have limited access to them at the same time?

- You don't need to Google and research for ages to avoid gimping your character.
- You avoid the shallow gameplay of builds where it's optimal to pump very few skills.
- You can experiment with various tools at your disposal without having to start a completely new character of the same class.
- There's many more build combinations.
- A misclick won't require you create a new character.

I think those are the major reasons why Diablo 3's system simply beats Diablo 2's system hands down.

Just my 5 cents.

[betazoid]

Bashiok tweeted regarding WD killing Inferno butcher in 9 secs that only 0.1% of lev 60 players use the same 6 skills, not counting passives. And that was 5th common build! I would think pretty much same applies to barbarian.

[BryanM]

- A misclick won't require you create a new character.

It's 2012. Diablo 2 has had full respecs for years now. Please update your bullet lists accordingly.

[Zarniwoop]

Bashiok tweeted regarding WD killing Inferno butcher in 9 secs that only 0.1% of lev 60 players use the same 6 skills, not counting passives. And that was 5th common build! I would think pretty much same applies to barbarian.

I think if you if you look at how many SUCCESSFUL builds (inferno act 2+) there are, the clustering would increase a ton.

[hubb]

Claiming that anyone who disagrees with you must be a frothing-at-the-mouth Blizz fanboy is an interesting way to encourage constructive discussion.

There are many things I don't like about this game and the direction Blizz has taken, not least how you choose skills and character impermanence - I agree that they could've done it differently. That said, I think this system ultimately leads to greater variety in builds and gameplay (compared to D2), and you make some silly arguments to show otherwise. Like betazoid said it is not about how many buttons you can push, likewise I don't see how having X amount of passives somehow adds to build variety, especially when these were virtually identical across barb builds.

Barb gameplay in D2 mainly consisted of binding your attack skill to RMB and keeping it down while running into enemies. You'd occasionally need to use one of the war cries for CC, and of course buff up with BC/BO/Shout. Depending on your build and gear level how much you spec into and use those passives, defensive skills and 1pt wonders would vary, but for the most part they were specced and used similarly across barb builds. Don't get me wrong - I love D2 and I spent an embarrassing amount of time tweaking builds and running/teleporting into things over the last 10 years - but your comparison doesn't hold up IMO.

I think (hope) that skill balancing, item improvements (because most uniques in D2 were useful, right?) and Inferno tweaks will open up more end-game options. We're not even two weeks in and the game is already doomed? :/

[Sooru]

The problem with current situation is that one needs 3 defensive passives and 3 defensive active skills to be able to do progress in Inferno. That basically reduces the meaningful buttons one gets to press to 1-3. My current Act 1 farming build keeps up defensive buffs, once in two minutes hits two buttons for godmode, and other than that I spam cleave and occasionally Charge for healz.

The six active skills is fine on the idea level, but as long as only one attack is absolutely needed, and taking defensive buffs for the other slots increases your chance for success, people will rather choose that way, than select 6 different, "fun" attacks that only deal damage in different ways.

In my view, barbarian only has 4 attacks: Cleave(broad sweep), Frenzy(maniac or sidearm), Ground Slam(reduced cost) and Weapon Throw(ricochet). This is my completely biased opinion, and someone else might see a different list.

I would like to use Ground Slam, but there's no way I can spare the skill slot. Furious charge I don't count as an attack, it's a 8% per target heal spell on cooldown, that doubles as an escape skill.

With monk I think they made much better job at it, they have tons of attacks that deal meaningful damage while also provide other utility functions. I'm sure it makes the monk gameplay much more engaging.

[jurr]

I like the respec. It works great for now with plenty of room for tweaking/expansion. My favorite part is that I have 5 characters, not 3 full accounts of playing characters and another 3 full of mules like in D2.

[Raazer]

I'm genuinely curious to hear what you think makes it better other than because Blizzard made it. What's superior about a system where everyone has the same skills at the same power available to them and you have limited access to them at the same time?

All your responses carry the implication that anyone who disagrees with you does so because they're blinded by their love for all things Blizzard. Actually, I like the new system, and I don't "love" Blizzard, so you can drop the arrogant bully schtick.