I'm more of a slow and plodding adventurer. D3 Barb playstyle seems to force you into running around looking for pack after pack, and I just... screw that. I like my own pace. I spend a lot of time with an empty Fury bulb. The system gets on my nerves. That's why I'd like to try to bypass it entirely.
I wouldn't be averse to having maybe one skill that used Fury, like Weapon Throw. Having a ranged attack is always handy. Having it always ready is even handier.
Well, I like to run and gun, but I can see how it'd be a hassle entering every battle with an empty bulb.
Originally Posted by BaronScarpia
If you have a lot of critical damage as well, maybe you can have a viable inferno barbarian. I'm almost sure you can run act 4 hell very safely if you gear up as a tank (high vit + high all res + high armor). Maybe you'll need to drop a passive for a defensive one (tough as nails/nerves of steel) and have a source of stun/ignore pain replacing the ancient spear.
Well, I'll try it, but I don't have high expectations. And, I have to confess, I switched to a much more standard build to get through acts 3 and 4 (NM) in a public game. Maybe I should have kept the old skills, but I was the only tank for a while, so the throw barb wouldn't have worked. Maybe I'll go back to the throw barb for Hell diff, but I was having a lot of fun using Sprint + Run Like the Wind and Furious Charge + Merciless Assault. It _is_ a lot of fun, and it pairs very well with Frenzy + Vanguard.
I'll try to combine Weapon Throw with Sprint/FuriousCharge, though I suspect it will be stretched thin.
Time for another small write-up. I didn't think I'll be playing D3 for a while (at least not in Inferno) but this weekend I had more time on my hands than usual and I decided to pickup the monk I had sitting at level ~30.
The goal was mostly to check out how monks fair in Inferno compared to my other level 60s and based on what I find maybe even pick up the game again.
Pre-Inferno
I started out with this build (thunderclap + sweeping winds/overawe + fire ally) and as expected it was more than enough to get me to Inferno without any issues. The only thing I bought from the AH this time were weapons and the rest of the gear was self-found with little bits of gear from the stash.
I rarely died but late Hell was starting to feel a little bit dangerous at times mostly because of the lack of a proper ranged AoE and miss-use of Thunderclap. He's definitively the most safe character I played (pre 60) but he's much much slower than a Wizard or DH.
It was slightly annoying that ZK/Iskatu/etc runs were nerfed to the point of being useless. I had to stick around in Nightmare for 2 extra levels and 3 extra levels in Hell repeating content.
Also I must say that even with the XP-nerf from the guys mentioned above it still took me only 9 hours to get him from 30 to 60.
Inferno
In Inferno the goal was to make him a tank (what else). I used a modified version of the build above (Keen Eye + Sweeping Wind/Hard Target + Earth Ally). I didn't play much in Inferno but even though his stats are much higher he does not feel much safer or faster than the barbarian but I'm hard to kill so I guess I'm satisfied.
This time around I decided to go with a different gearing strategy than before. With my barbarian I would check for strenght+vit+resists+random items and even low combinations like 60 str/60 vit/25 res were rather expensive. This time though I would check stat+resits+other gear only and it was very easy to pickup 160-180 dex or vit/70 res (One with Everything included in there) pieces for cheap (~50K per piece) and in the end it was much much easier to balance out and build the character.
After gearing him up I have about 38K HP, 44% dodge, 9k armor (with keen eye), 600 resists, 15K dps and all that for very very cheap.
The build
The build is made up of three chunks of two abilities: two primary damage abilities, two defensive abilities and two buffs.
I picked up Deadly Reach with Keen Eye mostly for the huge armor bonus and range. It has the disadvantage of being slower than Fists of Thunder and sometimes the range would make Sweeping Winds a little bit harder to use properly. Sweeping Winds has an amazingly low spirit per damage dealt ratio and is mostly a cast and forget ability (meh not really but in most situations it is). Also it wins by default because I never have enough spirit to use other abilities properly.
The defensive abilities I picked were Breath of Heaven (15% extra damage rune) and Serenity (healing). There are self explanatory: BoH is used to mitigate a little bit of damage and Serenity to get out of tight spots or simply to prevent damage on weaker champion pack.
The buffs I picked were Mantra of Evasion (15% dodge and 20% extra armor are simply great for tanking) and Earth Ally mostly for the 10% HP buff and also for the extra damage it provides.
Monks are also very versatile when it comes to builds. There are many ability/rune candidates for the groups (damage/defense/buff) and you can even make groups like one primary damage ability, four defensive, one buff and so on.
In the end I would like to be able to use this dual-wielding build but I still need a lot more gear to get there.
I am finding that I like D3's Frenzy. But like D2's Frenzy, it only works "properly" if you assign it to MB2. That way, you use MB2 to run about and then any monster that comes within melee range automatically gets frenzied. Vanguard makes it as close as possible to the D2 version of the skill. Ah, nostalgia clouding my judgement. I should probably be using Triumph.
HotA is on MB1 just because it's nice against tough single foes. Frenzy is good enough on its own for trash mobs so far.
I just beat the living crap out of The Butcher in Hell using this config. No deaths; only one low health moment due to burning floor and no LoH. Haven't begun act 2 yet. Sand wasps will be a joy, as always for a melee class. As I said I had thought about fury regen + weapon throw, but that's kinda situational. I like all-purpose better.
Hmm. Culling for enemies snared by FA or Caltrops, or go with Steady Aim? Even though she's now in A1 Inferno, she does a damn good job of keeping most things well away from her and kills them awesomely with SA. Also, she uses lots of Covering Fire + Hungering Arrow, which don't benefit from Culling since there's no frost damage on the bow. It's just that when it really matters, ie. you can't keep your distance from a fast elite, SA falls flat. It's not all that often, but it does happen with foes who are naturally fast.
Mostly a cookie Blizz/Hydra kiter. But I find that I prefer Arcane Hydra overall. Venom Hydras just suck vs. fast movers. Arcane Hydras provide some balance. Better damage vs. fast single targets, with some immediate splash damage vs. densely clustered foes.
CL is still rockin' even in Inferno. As long as I can keep a decent attack rate. I tried out seeker magic missiles, but I felt noticeably weaker.
I'm quite disappointed to find out that pets are pretty much trash going forwards (w/o specialized gear) but that's how it is.
I'm resigned to the idea that going forwards, I'm going to need Spirit Walk to beat wallers, jailers/etc. That will probably go in place of Zombie Dogs. Late NM was killing them left and right as it was.
Is it worth it to even keep Garg? I was having so much fun drawing aggro w/pets and bombarding from a distance. It was as close to playing a Necro as D3 would allow. But I guess Blizz doesn't want me to have any more fun playing this class.
I really don't want another kitey-character. I have my DH and Wiz for that crap.
I would ask this question on the WD forum, but all of the character sub-forums seem to assume that you're rich, in Inferno, and using the AH to buy build-specific gear.
I'm living off the land, but would prefer not to play this character in a way that involves running. I envisioned the WD as a CC expert, like the Necro of old. But I guess not.
Any tips?
Edit: My WD is currently lvl 52 (just a bit into) and just at the start of Hell. No ZB yet, but not far off.
@Painman: Yeah, the dogs are not useful at all without specific gear and the passives. You do need the burning dogs and big stinker runes as you have, and then a bunch of chance to stun/freeze etc items to make them viable as far as I read. I did use my gargantuan until late Hell though and he was doing fine as long as I recast him as often as possible. But he becomes totally useless starting Act IV hell. If you can find the items to make the pets viable, then you could end up having a non-kiting WD but I wasn't so lucky with it.
Another option at having a non-kiting WD is the tank WD that had some popularity lately due to some guy finishing inferno solo with him in hardcore. He has a pretty fun video of his run in act IV if you are interested here. I initially learned the build from Doctor Clock's pat thread here, where he also gives a link to the original guide in the official forums. It is an efficient build but again requires specific gear as in a bunch of Life on Hit (LoH) items. I read acid rain works very well with LoH items similar to rain of toads, if you like the skill.
Fetishes are still good and can tank a lot even in inferno, you could use a build that focuses on fetishes and zombie bears (with vision quest) that can manage himself without much kiting only with a reasonably good weapon as a requirement. I haven't tested this build myself but I would expect it to fare very well based on my experience with zombie bears. I am just not a fan of zombie bears because of its dependence on vision quest, which forces me to spam all my spells at the same time. I like to have the flexibility to use my spells when in need.
My WD is farming the beginning of act I inferno right now with this build. I guess its not something you want as I need to do a good amount of kiting with this but its doing very well for me with self-found gear. The grasp with 80% slow is a great skill, it makes (almost) all white monsters a joke. It is not as useful for champs and rares but hex is my cc for those. I also use grasp to time my locust recasts as both have 8 seconds of effectiveness. Soul harvest is great for heal and a great damage boost. For white monsters I start with grasp and locust and spam splinters, if something gets close I throw hex, and usually everything is dead before I need to throw another grasp. For champs and rares I just throw locust and run around while spamming hex and graps as much as possible. I do use splinters if I can but running around takes priority =). If I am left 1-on-1, then hex allows me to just stand there and shoot darts while the monster is a sitting chicken (or pig in my case).
I was lucky enough to find a 500+ dps item in act III hell to get me started with inferno, which I think is a necessity. But it shouldn't be to hard to come by since my barb going through the same place found 2 more similar items just during questing. Keep an eye for CC and LoH items and hope this info will be enough to get you moving =).
Last edited by NacRuno; 08-08-2012 at 13:23.
Reason: build link got messed for some reason
Frenzy [Sidearm] is the bread and butter attack skill. It can't really be beaten, at least not on Inferno where things don't just die in one or two swings (Cleave [Rupture] is viable early when things die so easily). It blows everything else out of the water for single-target damage, and the rune adds both great DPS and also a bit of AoE.
Leap [Iron Impact] is for general mobility as well as a bit of a survivability cooldown. It's just a good way to start every fight and get rolling. I prefer it over Charge because it's better for actual mobility and also prevents damage rather than just recovering from it. Charge doesn't help you if you're being killed faster than you can react.
Wrath of the Berserker [Insanity] is an obvious choice. No barbarian should go without it, quite honestly. Not only are the stats incredible and allow you to plow through the toughest packs imaginable, but it also makes you immune to all sorts of CC for the duration. That's almost more important since it's otherwise a huge hassle to deal with packs of frozen and/or nightmarish enemies.
War Cry [Hardened Wrath] is also a no-brainer, and since it's single-player, I still don't have the resists to really make use of [Impunity]. If/when that happens, that's what I'll go with.
Battle Rage [Marauder's Rage] is too good to pass up if you can fit it into your build at all, especially with a crit-based dual-wield build. An essentially permanent +30% damage and +3% crit is ridiculously good.
Revenge [Provocation] needs no explanation. Hey, that rhymes!
Berserker Rage is great because the build uses no fury spender except for the marginal cost of Battle Rage. It's another basically permanent damage boost since I run around at full fury pretty much all the time. Together with Battle Rage, that's a "passive" +55% damage!!!
Ruthless and Weapons Master have delightful synergy when dual-wielding axes or maces, which is what I'm usually doing. If I find a sword that's considerably better than my main axe, I swap Ruthless out for Nerves Of Steel along with steering the build away from crit and into a slightly more tanky shape. With swords, I have a permanent +70% damage from passive or always-active abilities. That's incredibly useful when playing self-found. It's so much free damage and not really dependent on anything else. When I get deeper into Inferno, I expect to need the added armor from Nerves Of Steel and will thus try to rely more on swords since that build depends less on critdam.
Thanks for the reply, NacRuno. Gave me some food for thought. Kinda neat the way you're raising pets via procs. And I totally forgot about Dr. Clock's thread, as it had scrolled off.
I do have a pretty good (though plain) weapon for lvl 60, and a rather OP -lvl req one that I'm using now. I'll give Bears a try once I get them and see if that playstyle does anything for me. VQ seems high maintenance, but if it helps kill stuff dead... I shouldn't prejudge it.
LoH is what I lack for trying out TankDoc, unfortunately. But it looks like it's engaging and fun.
I guess Hell will be my testing ground for new stuff. I haven't had the chance to play in a few days - WD still sitting and waiting to begin that difficulty.
Skill wize, Im as happy as larry. The combo of skills works very well for me. I use WW mainly to move thru or to the centre of the pack or out of nasty fire or poison pools then unleash a revenge. WW soften's them up then you can usually get a 6 or so kills in one blow. Very quick for getting rid of mobs. Wrath of the berserker is the boss/unique pack killer and battle rage/war cry for buffs.
Item wise I'm working towards increasing my resists, Strength for damage & armor and increasing my LoH from 550 atm. I definetely like the two item set bonuses of IK and Black thornes. Thinking of replacing the IK armor for Blackthornes armor and getting new boots with resist all/str/vit or saving for a str/vit IK armor. Jewelly will be the usual str/vit/LoH. Have my eye open for a cheap Ourbolous (spelling?) amulet. Even a lowly 200 LoH would suit my purposes. But my current amulet is pretty good for str/vit if I can gain all of my other requirements elsewhere then it's a good amulet to keep for a blue.
I've been changing skills and experiementing with this character. I just don't like the wizard as a solo character, but in multi play, I find playing the wizard a lot of fun so Im building her to suit this role and hope to join my fellow friends & SPF'ers.
I like magic missile / auto seek. Very handy for auto targetting fast moving individual monsters. I prefer Arcane torrent over Distentigrate, it's really cool imho and the damage is up there. Usual energy armor and diamond skin for panic. Meteor/hydra is the final two spells I'm experiementing with. I think ultimately I'll only use one of the other and swap in another spell, perhaps another primary like spectral blade for monsters that close to melee. I can diamond skin then spectral blade/self bomb with meteor has worked pretty well plus replenish energy for torrent.
Item wise, well got some holes atm. Grinding for drops/gold to fill those. I need more life/vitality, resists, armor/strength and off course int. building my gem collection to combine high end topaz/amth to fill the open holes which will help.
Yeah, it's the standard Critical Mass build for now. I'm a wee bit stuck on Inf Diablo at the moment, and I'm also getting a little antsy for a new skill setup. Not sure where I'll go yet.
My other fave is my monk, but he's just farming achievements in Act 2 Normal right now. I WILL find those freaking ghosts in Kulle's Archives!
Well, I tried a weapon throw barb a while back (before 1.0.4), and it worked okay. I took notes, but I've been too lazy to make a proper write-up, and now after 1.0.4, I really ought to redo my tests. The short version of the 1.0.3 WT Barb: With modest gear (662 DPS mighty sword), I was able to get to 5 stacks of NV without too much trouble in Act 1. I downed a few more packs and called it a test.
Here are the unabridged notes for those who want to see:
Spoiler
Code:
weapon throw barb
frenzy - vanguard
weapon throw - ricochet
sprint - run like the wind
threatening shout - intimidate
war cry - impunity
WotB - insanity
weapons master
ruthless
no escape
first instance
mighty weapon
first elite pack was champion bats
fire chains, molten, plague, something
did not use WotB
second a bit tougher
molten, avenger, knockback, electrified
third pack didn't count on NV timer
4th pack
flyers, mortar, not sure what else.
5th
summoner
molten, arcane, not sure what else
6th
waller
died to butcher due to enrage, got him quickly on the next try
died once to an elite, got surrounded
close call against ranged arcane elite in narrow space
had just done some defensive gear upgrades
also tried new found 2-hand for 16k versus 10k
I know it's cheap to post that, but no one complained last time** and it's easy. Also, I'm really not sure how helpful it will be now. Maybe someone (possibly me) will redo these tests in 1.0.4. And, if anyone here finds the legendary spear for WT, then I'll gladly test the weapon with this build.
That thread goes into a fair amount of detail in a build that I think, while a bit cheesy, is pretty helpful as a base for others. I've been using a similar build at Pijus' insistence. I tried Sprint and Charge together right after he suggested it, but I hadn't made a build around it, so it wasn't that great. But, once I'd built something around it that complemented it, it was really nice. Here's the build I was using:
Code:
Left: Charge: Merciless Assault
Right: Frenzy: Sidearm or Bash: Onslaught
A: Sprint: Run Like the Wind
S: Revenge: Provocation
Z: WotB: Insanity
X: Warcry: Imputiny
Originally Posted by Painman
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