Twin Chakrams versus Ball Lightning

[Matuse]

So Multishot is bad because it doesn't work when you try to use it like you would use Chakram or Ball Lightning?

Point at the monsters and shoot. This bears no resemblance to rocket science.

One ability works considerably worse than two alternatives. In open terrain, I use Chakram. In more narrow confines, I switch to Ball Lightning. Tried Multishot in both situations, and it performed extremely poorly in both. Not to mention the total requirement for using Fire At Will. If I wanted to switch to a different Chakram (Serpentine, Razor Disc) or Elemental Arrow (Ice Arrow, Nether Tentacles) rune for certain circumstances, it gives me better circumstantial performance without the cost of those abilities DOUBLING. Multishot has no options. None of the other runes available give even a fraction of the performance boost that would justify a 40 hatred cost. You might have had a case for the discipline regeneration rune, but not now that Smoke Screen has been hugely nerfed.

[lucidlore]

Point at the monsters and shoot. This bears no resemblance to rocket science.

One ability works considerably worse than two alternatives. In open terrain, I use Chakram. In more narrow confines, I switch to Ball Lightning. Tried Multishot in both situations, and it performed extremely poorly in both. Not to mention the total requirement for using Fire At Will. If I wanted to switch to a different Chakram (Serpentine, Razor Disc) or Elemental Arrow (Ice Arrow, Nether Tentacles) rune for certain circumstances, it gives me better circumstantial performance without the cost of those abilities DOUBLING. Multishot has no options. None of the other runes available give even a fraction of the performance boost that would justify a 40 hatred cost. You might have had a case for the discipline regeneration rune, but not now that Smoke Screen has been hugely nerfed.

You're right it isn't rocket science. Which is why its perplexing to me that its harder for you to hit via point and click with an instantaneous damaging skill with a wider area of effect than it is with an extremely slow moving skill with a more narrow radius. Like i've said before, ball lightning has to hit twice to deal its full stated damage, and this is never a guarantee. It will hit twice on stationary targets in a room. It will NOT always hit twice in open terrain, especially if you are facing a fast moving mob that's moving towards you.

I rocked ball lightning from midway through nightmare until act 1 hell. Once i hit act 2 hell and stuff started running much faster, ball lightning was no longer optimal since the lacunis and little crawly dessert critters moved so fast that many times i had to spam ball lightning to even land 1 hit, let alone 2.

[Apocalypse]

I use multishot right now and I don't understand the hate for it here.
I guess I'll have to try Chakrams and BL too.

this is exactly what i did. everyone was talking about these 2 skills like they were the best thing ever so i gave them a shot. in the end i went back to multishot as it is pretty much a screen killer for me. i guess the hate comes from people wanting to think their build is the best?

[RaxX]

I have been using Ball Lightning. You never have a problem getting max ticks off when you have a tank keeping mobs more or less stationary. I am not 100% sure, but Ball Lightning may also act somewhat like chain lightning. I have seen multiple instances of lightning arcing between two or more enemies, twice, from one ball. I have also noticed if you fire Ball Lightning at a close enough range from your target, you instantly cast a lightning arc at the target, like Electrocute. I cannot confirm if this counts as one of the two ticks though.

[saint_of_killers]

i guess the hate comes from people wanting to think their build is the best?

well, I think a lot of the hate comes from Mathablo kids who claim Twin Charkams and BL Elem Arrow as mathematically the best. Therefore it is obviously the best and everything else deserves to die. It's tough, b/c it's harder to quantify the statistical value of Multiarrow, b/c it's a bit reliant on how many enemies are spread across the screen. I emphasize "spread" b/c Chakram and BL go in a straight line and they'll hit what they hit. Or something...?

Anyway, am I the only one who wants Ball Lightning (and Nether Tentacles I suppose) to have a different graphic? If I wanted to shoot out elemental orbs, I would've rolled a Wizard! I wanna shoot arrows!

[lucidlore]

I think the difficulty one plays in has a lot to do with this. Mobs run FAST in late hell and beyond; and especially in inferno, no one stands in one spot and "tanks" mobs. You have to be quick on your feet and you need reliable, instant damage. Ball lightning doesn't do the trick. A lot of people still use nether tentacles in inferno despite the slow movement speed and smaller radius than ball lightning only because it does DOUBLE the damage that ball lightning does.

This isn't to say that the opinion of someone in normal or nightmare is less valuable. But if you are going to use one skill over another, let it be because it is more effective for you where you are at in the game. Don't make sweeping generalizations about how one skill is "considerably worse" than another, because it clearly is not.

[Matuse]

I guess my new favorite part to this thread is how everyone insists that I respect their opinion about the skill, while simultaneously having no respect for mine.

i guess the hate comes from people wanting to think their build is the best?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[lucidlore]

If you had just said it was your personal preference to use ball lightning over multishot, i wouldn't have bothered to respond, since everyone is entitled to use what skill they prefer. But this is not what you said. Your opinion consisted of hating on multishot based on false facts and assumption. For example, you stated that ball lightning hits twice, which was why you preferred it over multishot. While this is correct, it is quite misleading because it is based on the assumption that each ball lightning zap does the full damage, when it clearly does not.

If your opinion is a personal one, people would leave you alone. But when your opinion is based on faulty facts, people should and can correct you on it.

[moranor]

I did 20 or so Wortham runs in NM to level up a bit and to try out these three different skills.

BL wasn't to my tastes, it's just too narrow for crowds IMO.
Chakrams were better than I thought but they aren't flat out better, they're better against some targets. For low hp trashmobs I prefer MS as I can take them all out instantly, but for tougher enemies with large hitboxes (like the champion pack Magda spawns) Chakrams work better. It's more dmg per hatred but over a smaller area.

Not sure which one to use now. I think MS is more fun for what it's worth.

[yovargas]

I use multishot right now and I don't understand the hate for it here.
I guess I'll have to try Chakrams and BL too.

Asides from this Matuse guy, I don't see much "hate" for MS, just a general sense that TC and BL are better. In my experience (only through Normal), BL kills the most efficiently of the three but it's actually pretty cool to hear people having different experiences. Though I do wonder if anybody is using MS without Fire At Will because in that case it seems unquestionable to me that MS is inferior.