The thing that makes me worried about DH

[galzohar]

By the way, this isn't a DH-only issue. Look at barbs and monks... The only way to get the damage distribution close to even is if the AOE of the spender is significantly bigger to compensate for how little you can use it.

Note it's not at all about spenders being weak, but rather how rarely you can use said spenders, making them weak overall since a strong attack with low frequency is just not good enough.

I guess there's a reason they call the generators "primary".

That said, things might still work fine if the spender AOE is big enough.

[etezo]

Err... You mean like Archery?

Archery is equivalent of weapon master. I mean berserkers rage - wow its 25% now ? i think it was 15% ...

Pregenerating hatered is not fun - you want to run from monster to monster not wait and shoot air for full hate.

I agree with barbarians and monks - however barbarians generate rage at much higher speed and monk spenders are really powerfull utility/defensive abilities. DH uses discipline for that hatered should be just damage...

[Kintara]

I think you're overestimating the potential benefit of having two generators. I can still target enemies with bola and spam hungering arrow to kill groups. I still fire arrows, even with no hatred. If you're talking about utility, then you dont need an infinite source of damage for every type. How much two gens will practically help strikes me as unclear. At most, as clear as "10-20%" sounds to me.

[yovargas]

If this is a problem, it is not only the DH's.

[Questo]

Has anyone considered using Suppression Fire on Multishot and Punishment on Preparation? With the Vengeance passive skill you would be able to use Multishot three times before running out of hatred. As long as you hit at least eight monsters per Multishot it would allow you to constantly spam Preparation to refill your hatred. Grenades with Tinkerer makes a good backup spam ability and does okay damage over a spread that it can probably be cycled with Multishot if less than 8 targets are being hit and Preparation can't be used continuously. Bat Companion could also add some additional hatred regeneration.

The build would only be good for farming large packs since it can't sustain itself on anything smaller.

[galzohar]

Multi with preperation definitely seems like an interesting combo. I'd still take a generator though just in case, possibly one that does good single target damage such as hungering arrow. Of course, such a build will not have much use for the last 3 skill slots, since you won't have any resources to use them, and the DH doesn't have any free skills outside of generators and preparation.

Note that just because you can't sustain yourself on anything smaller doesn't mean it becomes totally worthless. You still got the generator to help regenerate and discipline regenerates naturally as well. Possibly take the hatred/disc from health globes passive even though +25 max hatred is not enough for an extra multi.

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...Tkl!YWe!abZaYZ
For last 3 slots I picked skills that would give most bang for the resource cost, and besides, you could "unload" sentry+companion and refill the discipline with the first 3 shots of multi before you need to use preparation for the first time, and you hopefully won't need to recast them before the battle is over.

[etezo]

I think you're overestimating the potential benefit of having two generators. I can still target enemies with bola and spam hungering arrow to kill groups. I still fire arrows, even with no hatred. If you're talking about utility, then you dont need an infinite source of damage for every type. How much two gens will practically help strikes me as unclear. At most, as clear as "10-20%" sounds to me.

its simple 50 hate for cluster arrow . 10 bolta shots and 5s of generation - 1100+330 vs 1200 (only bolta) thus giving 19.1% more damage. Worth noting that bolta got actualy bigger aoe and the faster attacks you have the worse thsi ratio is. For multishot the gain is 9% but multi got bigger aoe.
without generator ? well you take those numbers and you see that 80% of damage comes from generator and 20% from spender. If you would use aoe gen on single target then you are halving the gen damage thus lowering yoru dps by 40%. on the other hand using just getnerator and kicking out spender will reduce yoru damage by less then 20%

If this is a problem, it is not only the DH's.

not as much. Wizz and WD dont have this issue.
Monk got it but he can spend spirit on upkeep , utility and survival abilities. DH got discipline for that.
Barb - hard too tell - he got some insane rage generation with passive and mihty weapons. We cant tell also the rage generated from taking damage later. BUT due to berserkers rage they also are probably better without spenders. (barb got many rage free abilities so i guess its valid build.)

Has anyone considered using Suppression Fire on Multishot and Punishment on Preparation? With the Vengeance passive skill you would be able to use Multishot three times before running out of hatred. As long as you hit at least eight monsters per Multishot it would allow you to constantly spam Preparation to refill your hatred. Grenades with Tinkerer makes a good backup spam ability and does okay damage over a spread that it can probably be cycled with Multishot if less than 8 targets are being hit and Preparation can't be used continuously. Bat Companion could also add some additional hatred regeneration.

The build would only be good for farming large packs since it can't sustain itself on anything smaller.

you are assuming you wont need discipline to keep yourself alive. With multishot nerf this build was killed.
@bat - 1 active slot for just 3h/s . Only for extreeme kiting.

@galzohar - long story short - no slow no life (spider aint gonan cut it unless he does aoe ) , same goes for lack of escape tool.You need either runed entangling (4 targets) caltrops or fan of knives to slow things and vault or smoke screen for escape. Later things get soo fast that without it you are just dead.

[yovargas]

not as much. Wizz and WD dont have this issue.

You do realize Hatred/Disc autoregen just like the Wiz and WD, right? You don't have to fire a single bola shot (or whatever) to use cluster arrow occasionally, you just get to use it more often if you do. If anything, the Wiz/WD have it worse since their base skills don't increase regen rate like the DH's. The poor Monk has to punch six times to use one Kick and thirteen time to use one bell.

[Kintara]

its simple 50 hate for cluster arrow . 10 bolta shots and 5s of generation - 1100+330 vs 1200 (only bolta) thus giving 19.1% more damage. Worth noting that bolta got actualy bigger aoe and the faster attacks you have the worse thsi ratio is. For multishot the gain is 9% but multi got bigger aoe.
without generator ? well you take those numbers and you see that 80% of damage comes from generator and 20% from spender. If you would use aoe gen on single target then you are halving the gen damage thus lowering yoru dps by 40%. on the other hand using just getnerator and kicking out spender will reduce yoru damage by less then 20%

Well, I had a hard time following that. For one thing, I have a hard time talking about Cluster Arrow and not assuming I have the Passive for it (or looking to get it), which means I probably have Grenades and not Bola Shot. But also, this has a lot to do with how you corral enemies, who you target first, and why you take shots when you do. Anyway, if I shoot Bola Shot at a single target, I do 130% damage to a single target, I don't know what you mean by halving generator damage.

[galzohar]

It doesn't matter if you swap passives or use a different generator. The numbers will be different but the idea is the same - Generator deals most of the damage.

For wizards (haven't checked for WDs, but it's probably similar), depending on what weapon speed, %time spent fighting vs running around and what skills+passives you're using, it'll usually be around 50/50 signature/spender damage, sometimes 40/60 and sometimes 60/40 or so - Again, depending on a lot of factors. They deal more of their damage via the spenders compared to other classes, yes, but they still use their signature spells a lot too. Of course, signature spells are quite weak compared to the generators of barb/monk/DH, so that can very well even-out in the long run.