This is how end game works....

**beingmused** · 03-05-2012, 14:08

Originally Posted by cozmiccc

Uhm... These are all level 60 class sets, basically class sets = tiers, they are the same thing you know :P And as above tier 14 will drop in Act 1 Inferno, tier 15 in Act 2, and so on.... There is no loot table like in WoW if that's what you meant. So a legendary swords can drop off a broken urn or a random zombie, not just from the end boss.

I think he means the "strongest" set available to each class, analogous to the "Tal Rasha's Wrappings" and whatnot from D2.

**Hideo** · 03-05-2012, 14:18

The concept of dozens of "armor tiers" is straight from WoW. There was no such thing in D2. IMO, there should be one "tier" per difficulty, like in D2.

There are many ideas borrowed from WoW in D3. For ex. monster level is very important. In D2, you never cared for monster level. In D3 you will. In D2 you didn't care for DPS. In D3 you will, etc. etc. etc.

**cozmiccc** · 03-05-2012, 14:22

Originally Posted by Hideo

The concept of dozens of "armor tiers" is straight from WoW. There was no such thing in D2. IMO, there should be one "tier" per difficulty, like in D2.

There are many ideas borrowed from WoW in D3. For ex. monster level is very important. In D2, you never cared for monster level. In D3 you will. In D2 you didn't care for DPS. In D3 you will, etc. etc. etc.

IMO these concepts are things that going to make D3 fun to play though... more details for you to care about, I think this is what hardcore players actually want?

and D2 is not one tier per difficulty. The appearances recycle, but the item progression remained. In fact the whole item class of Normal, Exceptional, Elite (which doesn't even exist pre-LOD) are used just as an excuse because Blizz recycle the appearances and art of Normal items.

I really can't see why it's a bad thing with D3 system, unless you just hate changes and anything that might resemble WoW in your mind :S Actually WoW only call the item 'tiers' for their end game armor sets.

**Taerix** · 03-05-2012, 14:27

I love this idea. That it's actually going to be hard to get the best gear, instead of just getting lucky on any run. Now it's both.

I think this will make the replay-ability of D3 really high.

**cozmiccc** · 03-05-2012, 14:27

Originally Posted by beingmused

I think he means the "strongest" set available to each class, analogous to the "Tal Rasha's Wrappings" and whatnot from D2.

well the strongest will of course be tier 16 from Act 3 & 4 Inferno :P

If you mean the set items... I'm not really sure, but I recalled sometime ago that Blizzard said the set item will function differently than it was in D2...

**Hideo** · 03-05-2012, 14:32

Originally Posted by cozmiccc

IMO these concepts are things that going to make D3 fun to play though... more details for you to care about, I think this is what hardcore players actually want?

and D2 is not one tier per difficulty. The appearances recycle, but the item progression remained. In fact the whole item class of Normal, Exceptional, Elite (which doesn't even exist pre-LOD) are used just as an excuse because Blizz recycle the appearances and art of Normal items.

I really can't see why it's a bad thing with D3 system, unless you just hate changes and anything that might resemble WoW in your mind :S Actually WoW only call the item 'tiers' for their end game armor sets.

Well, I guess it depends what you prefer: WoW or D2. In terms of pure gameplay I prefer D2 strongly. In WoW I enjoyed only the social features and the ability to meet with folks in Stromwind, guilds etc. I STRONGLY prefer D2 gameplay systems to WoW systems. Nonetheless, many ideas in D3 are from WoW while most of D2 systems have been scrapped.

**xploziv** · 03-05-2012, 14:33

Originally Posted by Hideo

There are many ideas borrowed from WoW in D3. For ex. monster level is very important. In D2, you never cared for monster level. In D3 you will.

Yes you did... Why do you did MF runs in Meph, pindle, baal, DI, etc...? or MF'ing the Pits?
And don't forget that WoW itself borrowed various concepts from D2, so it's really a cycle...

**Hideo** · 03-05-2012, 14:36

Originally Posted by xploziv

Yes you did... Why do you did MF runs in Meph, pindle, baal, DI, etc...? or MF'ing the Pits?
And don't forget that WoW itself borrowed various concepts from D2, so it's really a cycle...

You did MF runs depending on AREA level. For ex The Pit is level 85 IIRC. You didn't care at all about monsters levels. It's not that you typed "/consider" before attacking a mob. XD While you "consider" a mob in WoW and you will in D3, to certain extent.

**beingmused** · 03-05-2012, 14:37

Originally Posted by Hideo

The concept of dozens of "armor tiers" is straight from WoW. There was no such thing in D2. IMO, there should be one "tier" per difficulty, like in D2.

Two points on this:

1. People tend to get caught up on terms and don't actually think about what they mean in specific contexts. Yes the term "armor tiers" appears in WoW, but they don't behave at all the same way in D3. There isn't any real difference in how item base level + affix quality works in D3 vs. D2....the term "tier" is mainly being used here to describe how they are doing the art for different armor types.

2. This is yet another in a string of countless examples of someone saying "x is different from Diablo 2, and being different is bad" with no argument given for why that change is wrong (even if there is no change at all).

There are many ideas borrowed from WoW in D3. For ex. monster level is very important. In D2, you never cared for monster level.

/spittake What?!?

In D3 you will. In D2 you didn't care for DPS.

/anotherspittake WHaaaaat?? (I don't know why I took another sip)

edit:

You did MF runs depending on AREA level. For ex The Pit is level 85 IIRC. You didn't care at all about monsters levels. It's not that you typed "/consider" before attacking a mob. XD While you "consider" a mob in WoW and you will in D3, to certain extent.

Area level modified things, but mlevel was also a factor, and those two were different. D3 seems simpler: Act3 and 4 both have an "area level" of 63. I have no idea what you mean by having to "consider" things...I don't think you've "considered" this line of argument through very well.

**Raesene** · 03-05-2012, 14:38

The problem with too strong of a gear check at each tier is that it will heavily reduce the number of viable drops you will see at any given tier. If fighting level 62 monsters requires you to effectively have a full (or near-full) set of level 61 items, then you can break down the drops that come from level 62 monsters into "drops that are level 62" and "drops that are not level 62".

I think this harms the slot-machine feel of looting because you essentially have removed the stream of minor victories you could achieve on your way to the "big score". It has the danger of becoming "anything that is not a max level drop is worthless."

Now, I'm not saying it *will* be like this.