Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    369

    Bone necromancer vs. magic immunities

    With most of my characters, I try to solo everything on /players8. Well, I've never done a bone necro. Immunities were never a problem for my summoner (Amplify Damage for the breakable physical immunities and skeletal mages for the unbreakable ones) or too insurmountable for my poison necro (Lower Resist, fire skills from the Trang-Oul's set, Life Tap and beating them up with Grief). So I'm apprehensive about taking a bone necro into Hell. Sure, magic-immune monsters aren't that common, but if I base my skill investment and my gear on getting good damage from my bone spells, there's not a lot left over for handling them.

    I'm wondering if it's possible to have a gear setup that would let me kill magic-immune monsters with a weapon. Relying on AI curse shenanigans or on a merc doesn't appeal to me. I want to be able to, if necessary, walk up to monsters and hit them with a weapon until they die. I guess I want a bone necro that can act as a part-time meleemancer. Viable? Stupid? I have no idea.

    Right now I'm considering Heart of the Oak with a Spirit shield, and then Beast and Stormshield on the switch (with enough dexterity to get max block on the Stormshield, but not on the Spirit). So I could hang back firing Bone Spears and, when I encountered some magic immunities, Life Tap them, turn into a bear, and eat them. I could get a reasonable attack speed and cap my cast rate with this setup. I wouldn't get much in the way of resists, so I'd have to carry a ton of charms, but whatever. I also wouldn't get as many +skills as I might like. Well, really I guess what I'd be doing is sacrificing the boots, gloves, and helm slots for gear that wouldn't be optimal for the bone spells, but that would let me have some melee capability. Worth it? Stupid?

    Perhaps I'm overreacting over a tiny minority of the monsters I'll face?



  2. #2
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,575

    Re: Bone necromancer vs. magic immunities

    That sounds like a lot of trouble for just a few types of mobs. Are you sure you couldn't stand amp+merc+CEing them?



  3. #3
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    369

    Re: Bone necromancer vs. magic immunities

    Quote Originally Posted by Karth View Post
    That sounds like a lot of trouble for just a few types of mobs.
    Yeah, it does.

    Are you sure you couldn't stand amp+merc+CEing them?
    I'm apprehensive about Corpse Explosion as a means of dealing with immunity because it requires corpses as fuel. This would be exacerbated if I'm on /players8 because I'd be more likely to run out of corpses before the immune monsters were killed. Not a problem for the merc though. Which merc would be best?



  4. #4
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,575

    Re: Bone necromancer vs. magic immunities

    Quote Originally Posted by Namtar View Post
    I'm apprehensive about Corpse Explosion as a means of dealing with immunity because it requires corpses as fuel. This would be exacerbated if I'm on /players8 because I'd be more likely to run out of corpses before the immune monsters were killed. Not a problem for the merc though. Which merc would be best?
    A2 might merc is probably going to be your best bet. I don't know what resources you have available, but given any choice (+RWM) I'd probably stick an EbotD war pike, ebug fort, and 40ed/9str jeweled Guillaume's on him for players 8. That would give him ~33k dps before Amp and chance to hit, assuming perfect gear. Great Poleaxe and Giant Thresher do a bit less damage and at players 8 I'm not sure .5-1 additional chances to proc crushing blow per second will make up for that.

    I'm pretty darned sure this is far more damage than a bear shaped necro (with gear otherwise suited for spear/spirit) can put out. The CE would just be icing on the cake. ~1x players 1 monster health, per cast, spread out among several amped mobs, is probably also still more dps than your necro could do as a bear.



  5. #5
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    291

    Re: Bone necromancer vs. magic immunities

    Yeah messing around with melee setups is pretty unnecessary IMO. The only immunes you'll likely see are the Unravelers and Plague Bearers in Act 2 and Unravelers in WSK.

    Unravelers are easy to deal with as they come with packs of CE fodder - amp the whole bunch, bone spear til one skeleton drops and start exploding. /players8 will make it tougher than single player but all that means is that it will take longer. They're also pretty much completely shut down until you want to deal with them by Dim Vision.

    Plague Bearers are a little tougher but zombies aren't a hard enemy for even a decent merc. You probably won't need something like an eBotD War Pike either, something as simple as an eth elite Insight should do the job so long as you support the merc properly with curses. Worst case is you just dim everything you see and run through the whole Lost City.


    Last edited by Volren; 02-05-2012 at 16:54.

  6. #6
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,575

    Re: Bone necromancer vs. magic immunities

    EbotD war pike+guillaume's+fort merc is always unnecessary and always fun to watch when he goes to town on mobs.



  7. #7
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    369

    Re: Bone necromancer vs. magic immunities

    Thread necromancy for a different issue, but this is for the same character, so I thought posting it here would be best...

    I got back to this character and he's really picked up in power. When I started this thread I was still in Act I Normal. But I got Iron Golem in Act II and making an Insight Iron Golem has solved my mana problems completely. And then in Act III I started to equip some twink gear. Mephisto and Diablo were very easy. Right now he's level 42, about halfway through Act V and still dominating, with one rather annoying, although not incredibly dangerous, problem: Blood Mana. It's been so long since I've even seen this curse that I don't know what to do. The first time it came up, it caught me completely by surprise. Do other bone necros run into this problem? It's manageable in Normal, but I obviously don't want to get hit by Blood Mana in Hell.

    I'm guessing that it's some combination of Ume's, Frostburn, SoJ, and Silkweave that's exposing me to Blood Mana. I've used all of those items before, albeit probably never all together on the same character. Any ideas?

    Oh, and I don't know why I never responded to this earlier...

    Quote Originally Posted by Volren View Post
    Yeah messing around with melee setups is pretty unnecessary IMO. The only immunes you'll likely see are the Unravelers and Plague Bearers in Act 2 and Unravelers in WSK.
    I have taken other characters through Hell. I know where the magic immune monsters can spawn (including several that you didn't name). I realize that there isn't a 100% chance for them to spawn even when they might show up in some places, but I don't really care because I'll run into them eventually.

    Unravelers are easy to deal with as they come with packs of CE fodder - amp the whole bunch, bone spear til one skeleton drops and start exploding. /players8 will make it tougher than single player but all that means is that it will take longer. They're also pretty much completely shut down until you want to deal with them by Dim Vision.
    I know that against some magic immune monsters I will run out of corpses.

    Plague Bearers are a little tougher but zombies aren't a hard enemy for even a decent merc. You probably won't need something like an eBotD War Pike either, something as simple as an eth elite Insight should do the job so long as you support the merc properly with curses. Worst case is you just dim everything you see and run through the whole Lost City.
    Well, I'm hoping not to put a single point into Dim Vision because I hate it. Weird maybe, but yeah. I've never seen the need for Dim Vision on any of my other necros either and does nothing at all against too many monsters. If I really need crowd control, there's always Bone Wall. I realize that some people get a lot of value out of Dim Vision, but I never needed it for my poison necro or my summoner necro (both over level 90). I'm hoping I won't need it for my bone necro either.

    I'm not running past the Lost City because that's not how I play. I'm here to murder demons, not escape from them. If I have to change gear or skills so that I only kill monsters half as fast, that's totally acceptable if it means I get to kill all of them instead of killing 98% of them and running away from the rest. I've never played a single-element sorceress for that reason and it's why I was hesistant to start a bone necro. But I am willing to use a merc, and that eBotD Might merc sounds pretty cool and isn't something I've done before, so I'll probably shoot for that.



  8. #8
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,667

    Re: Bone necromancer vs. magic immunities

    I have pat'd a bonemancer and magic immunes are the least of his problems. Unless for some reason there's only a bunch of magic immunes and no corpses to explode.

    Bone damage is so bad that for most of the time you will only be using corpse explosion, after getting a few corpses through bone spears or merc. It's really more of a 'CEmancer' than bone. Check out the guide titled 'Explosionmancer' in this forum.



  9. #9
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    369

    Re: Bone necromancer vs. magic immunities

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphodbrx View Post
    I have pat'd a bonemancer and magic immunes are the least of his problems. Unless for some reason there's only a bunch of magic immunes and no corpses to explode.

    Bone damage is so bad that for most of the time you will only be using corpse explosion, after getting a few corpses through bone spears or merc. It's really more of a 'CEmancer' than bone. Check out the guide titled 'Explosionmancer' in this forum.
    Yeah, I've read that guide (I'll look again for gear alternatives anyway). From what I can tell, even though the bone spells are woefully underpowered for the skill investment they require (at least that's how I see it in comparison to the two other major magic-damage archetypes I've seen: hammerdins and berserkers), the damage seems adequate even for Hell on /players8. Maybe it would be insufficient untwinked, but I'll be twinking the crap out of this guy. But I'm not necessarily opposed to dumping points in CE either. I've already been making use of it as a one-point wonder. It's not the ultimate mob obliterator that it is on /players1, but it does help. The only necro for whom I've put more than one point into CE so far has been my summoner, and in his case I maxed it. Still a nice one-point skill on my other necromancers. If Bone Spear is too slow at clearing monsters in Nightmare, I'll consider dumping points into CE. For now, I've only just maxed my first bone skill.

    So, has anyone else run into the Blood Mana issue with a bone necro, or am I the only one dumb enough to? My red bubble is starting to catch up as I invest more into vitality. I'm sure I can make a gear change (ditching Silkweave maybe?) or give my necro some vitality charms to solve the problem. But I am curious.



  10. #10
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,667

    Re: Bone necromancer vs. magic immunities

    Bone skills are terribly underpowered. I don't know where you got the idea that it is 'adequate' on Hell p8.
    My twinked bonemancer ( lvl 42 bone spear ) just barely got through A1,A2 on p3 and then on I just set it at p1. I also resisted using CE, and put all points into bone synergies. Even then at times I couldn't help using CE even though it was at 1 pt ( but L20 with +skills ).
    Bonemancer dmg is a joke to be honest. It plays like a wannabe lightning sorc with one fourth the damage and no teleport. When you consider that magic resistances cannot be lowered or immunities broken ( unlike conviction merc ), it's even worse.

    The blood mana problem is because you have more mana than life. Just put a bunch of points into vita and vita charms, it'll be fine.



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •