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  1. #11
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    Re: Ridiculous Attack Speed numbers

    my DH on beta was at 2,1 aps and the monk with 2,07 and it was super fast
    on the calculator i was able to get 3,9 with DH but i think is not accurate
    amulets rings weapons and gloves provide aps bonus



  2. #12
    IncGamers Member AurelianZ's Avatar
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    Re: Ridiculous Attack Speed numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doppel View Post
    Sure
    Two daggers (1.5 APS) both with the mods 0.25 APS and 25% IAS
    1.25*(1.5+(2*0.25)) = 2.5 APS
    plus 0.45 APS from jewelry = 2.95 APS
    165% IAS from non-weapon equipement + 15% IAS from dual wield + 15% IAS from Weapons Master + 25% IAS from WotB + 75% IAS from Frenzy = 295% IAS
    thus
    2.95*3.95 = 11.6525 Attacks Per Second !!!
    This is ofcourse the most extreme example, but still even half that would be insanely fast. (I shiver at the idea of some unique armor pieces possibly even having + APS)
    I'm not sure if you can have APS and IAS on the same item in the same time. 1 mod may exclude the other.

    Plus, I think your formula might be a little bit wrong. Weapon's +IAS% only applies to weapon's basic APS.

    The order is:
    1. Multiply basic weapon APS with the +IAS% on the weapon.
    2. Add every +APS you have (from all the items)
    3. Multiply everything with the total +IAS% on other items and buffs (DOESN'T INCLUDE +IAS% on second weapon!)


    For your example, the APS should be 8.41 or something like that.


    Last edited by AurelianZ; 03-05-2012 at 00:29.

  3. #13
    IncGamers Member HardRock's Avatar
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    Re: Ridiculous Attack Speed numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by AurelianZ View Post
    I'm not sure if you can have APS and IAS on the same item in the same time. 1 mod may exclude the other.
    They may have special rules for the item generator to disallow both mods to spawn, but personally I doubt that. There are already affix groups set up for this purpose in the game (for the damage vs. enemy type, Life on hit / kill and weapon proc mods for example, but there are more), but the APS and IAS mods have their own group.



  4. #14
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    Re: Ridiculous Attack Speed numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by AurelianZ View Post
    I'm not sure if you can have APS and IAS on the same item in the same time. 1 mod may exclude the other.

    Plus, I think your formula might be a little bit wrong. Weapon's +IAS% only applies to weapon's basic APS.

    The order is:
    1. Multiply basic weapon APS with the +IAS% on the weapon.
    2. Add every +APS you have (from all the items)
    3. Multiply everything with the total +IAS% on other items and buffs (DOESN'T INCLUDE +IAS% on second weapon!)


    For your example, the APS should be 8.41 or something like that.
    Where did you get this formula?



  5. #15
    IncGamers Member AurelianZ's Avatar
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    Re: Ridiculous Attack Speed numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by machinus View Post
    Where did you get this formula?
    beta testing



  6. #16
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    Re: Ridiculous Attack Speed numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by AurelianZ View Post
    beta testing
    So you are guessing. Has anyone verified the formulas from the game code?



  7. #17
    IncGamers Member AurelianZ's Avatar
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    Re: Ridiculous Attack Speed numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by machinus View Post
    So you are guessing. Has anyone verified the formulas from the game code?
    That description is more complete than what you can find from searching the game code.

    you are free to try it.
    http://diablonut.incgamers.com/planner

    keep in mind that the +15% IAS for dual wielding is not yet implemented





    Last edited by AurelianZ; 06-05-2012 at 01:57.

  8. #18
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    Re: Ridiculous Attack Speed numbers

    You're assuming the raw +APS bonus applies first, then %APS. If so, the two bonuses would scale multiplicatively:
    Total APS = ( Weapon APS + Kings1 + Kings2 + Kings3 ) * ( 1 + Haste1 + Haste2 + Haste3 )
    A haste focused build would want as much of both these stats *at the exclusion of all else* because the benefits would be parabolic. As you gain more Kings, Haste rises in value. As you gain more Haste, Kings rises in value.

    I don't think that'd be a very good implementation.

    It could very well be that Blizzard thought this through, and realized that to linearize stat benefits a little bit they need to make sure the additive bonuses don't multiply anywhere:
    Total APS = Weapon APS * ( 1+ Haste1 + Haste2 + Haste3 ) + King1 + Kings2 + Kings3

    If they do this, there are several benefits from a balance standpoint:
    - %DPS increase of adding +%haste balances slightly downward as your +APS modifier rises
    - %DPS increase of adding +APS balances slightly downward as your +%haste modifier rises
    - Absolute DPS increase, relative to self (haste or APS stat), each increase in stat per budget stays about constant no matter how much you have (in terms of absolute DPS the value doesn't diminish just stacking 1 or the other)
    - Summarizing all that, builds centered on a slow weapon would benefit more from raw +APS, and high attack speed builds benefit more from %Haste. All throughout the game, no matter what your gearpoint was. And stacking them both to the sky would be an overall loss because both stats place upward pressure on the value of +Damage (both percent based and raw) and +Crit Damage affixes, which you could have added instead of the opposing attack speed stat. The +damage affixes would be desirable unless total number of hits or crits feeds back on your runes/passives somehow (some possibilities come to mind for wizard).

    My problem with d3nut is that he doesn't explain how he knows which way stats stack. Taking someone else's educated guess at face value, it's a blind assumption that person actually thought things through or tested his results thoroughly enough.



  9. #19
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    Re: Ridiculous Attack Speed numbers

    I think it's pretty much a rule of thumb that faster attack speed comes (should come) at the loss of total DPS.
    This is because the effectiveness of so many important factors is directly related to how fast one attacks:
    - resource gain
    - crits
    - cc
    - procs
    Unless ofcourse they normalize all these factors, which would in my opinion be horrible from a gameplay standpoint (since then there wouldn't ever be a reason not to go with the highest DPS = extremely boring linear gameplay).



  10. #20
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    Re: Ridiculous Attack Speed numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doppel View Post
    I think it's pretty much a rule of thumb that faster attack speed comes (should come) at the loss of total DPS.
    This is because the effectiveness of so many important factors is directly related to how fast one attacks:
    - resource gain
    - crits
    - cc
    - procs
    Unless ofcourse they normalize all these factors, which would in my opinion be horrible from a gameplay standpoint (since then there wouldn't ever be a reason not to go with the highest DPS = extremely boring linear gameplay).
    I disagree. You have to consider the fact that while a faster attack may gain resources faster, it also often uses them less efficiently than a slower attack does. For example, a demon hunter with hand crossbows attacking very quickly will regain hatred very quickly, but when he uses Multishot to burn it off, he does less damage per Hatred spent than the demon hunter using a 2 handed bow but who cannot regain Hatred as quickly. They both benefit from different Hatred generation strategies; the hand crossbow user benefits from Hatred per attack, while the 2 handed bow user gains a greater benefit from hatred per second generation.

    This carries over to crits effects; the hand crossbow using demon hunter may proc or apply critical damage more often, but the two handed bow using demon hunter gains a greater benefit from passives like Sharpshooter because he attacks and crits more slowly.

    The best argument for faster attack speed over slower attack speed probably lies in things like Entangling Shot; a free/resource-generating attack that is also crowd control. The faster the attacks, the faster one can apply crowd control. Blizz has said that the different routes are more or less balanced (though with different play styles) so it remains to be seen how they did this. An increase in actual DPS of the slower-attack-speed route would help to counter this.



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