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  1. #1
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    The Barbarian single-target DPS challenge!

    Current top iterations:

    Maniac/Best Served Cold: Potential 20% damage bonus to big cooldowns, depending on how Maniac is to be interpreted. Has healing in bonus. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...TjP!ZYc!cZacZZ

    Instigation/Smash: Alternates Instigation and Smash at high fury levels so that the latter can benefit from Berserker Rage. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...TjP!ZYc!YZacZZ

    Instigation/Dread Bomb: Drop yourself below 20% health and spam Dread Bomb once at max fury. Could potentially replace the Weapon Master passive with Animosity for 60% more damage on Dread Bomb at the expense of whatever Weapon Master provides. Very dangerous to use, to the point of unviability. Has area of effect damage in bonus. I can confidently say that this build has the highest potential damage dealing capability in the entire game. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...TjP!YcU!YcacZZ

    Dear Barbarian forums,

    I challenge thee.

    Friends and I have been planning our party for months, only to realize that we lacked burst single-target damage dealing capabilities. We have also come to realize that I was the only player without a very defined role, so much that I, the Barbarian, was forcefully elected (without complains on my part) to become our dedicated single-target damage dealer.

    Goal and "rules":

    -The goal of this thread is to come up with the highest possible single-target damage dealing build for the Barbarian.

    -You cannot pick the Brawler passive.

    -If you are to bring in maths, just create your own situation. As long as you compare the same stats, you should be able to figure out what the best build is. While it is true that certain builds probably scale better, we just don't currently have enough information to determine anything precisely. You are invited to use your imagination rather than raw numbers.

    -The seemingly best builds for our purpose (supported by the best arguments) will be posted up! (updated).


    Last edited by ElementEight; 02-05-2012 at 20:00.

  2. #2
    IncGamers Member Superstate's Avatar
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    Re: The Barbarian single-target DPS challenge!

    Remove whichever outside of the holy trinity (prim gen, marauders, insanity) and insert BSC. Done!



  3. #3
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    Last edited by NotUsed; 01-05-2012 at 00:56.

  4. #4
    IncGamers Member Such Violent Storms's Avatar
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    Re: The Barbarian single-target DPS challenge!

    The OP's build is good, yet there's still some factors that could change skill choice.

    If you get hit a lot, Revenge could work.
    If the fight lasts longer than 90 seconds, having WotB and CotA reduced cooldown with boon of bulkathos could yield more damage than Ruthless passive.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...ijP!YcS!ccaaaZ

    And of course, the Barbarian would be using an item that granted 14% more damage to Frenzy.



  5. #5
    IncGamers Member Snerra's Avatar
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    Re: The Barbarian single-target DPS challenge!

    Heh, fun challenge. One would probably have to break out the math, but I'm not smart enough for that. I'd go for this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WcSiTP!YWZ!cbaacZ

    I think rend every 3 seconds will be superior to CotA in longer fights - and since we now have a fury spender, Beserker Rage is changed to Animosity.
    However, for pure damage, I'd pick Weapon Throw (Dread Bomb) instead of Furious Charge: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WcfiTP!YWZ!cbcacZ With animosity, that's 460% weapon damage with a full fury bubble. Furious Charge adds some utility, and allows you to catch up to the monster (i.e. The Skeleton King), but if you ignore that possibility then Dread Bomb.



  6. #6
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    Re: The Barbarian single-target DPS challenge!

    Quote Originally Posted by Superstate View Post
    Remove whichever outside of the holy trinity (prim gen, marauders, insanity) and insert BSC. Done!
    Not sure what you meant by BSC.

    I see what you're trying to do, but I fear the time you spend using an inferior damage dealing generator is going to hurt the overall DPS "chart". It does open up the possibility of using Bash x 2, Hammer of the Ancients x 1 repeatedly in order to have it benefit from Berserker Rage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Such Violent Storms View Post
    The OP's build is good, yet there's still some factors that could change skill choice.

    If you get hit a lot, Revenge could work.
    If the fight lasts longer than 90 seconds, having WotB and CotA reduced cooldown with boon of bulkathos could yield more damage than Ruthless passive.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...ijP!YcS!ccaaaZ

    And of course, the Barbarian would be using an item that granted 14% more damage to Frenzy.
    The big cooldowns are really hard to judge, because while they hit extremely hard themselves (making them amazing for burst), over such long cooldowns, other skills are certainly be able to deal more. As for getting hit, I'm not our tank. As an aside, merely using Frenzy + Maniac yields something like 230%, which is really close if not over what revenge can do, so I'm unconvinced about it even if I were to be hit enough for constant procs. Boon is certainly a good idea if the fight is to last over 90, that's for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snerra View Post
    Heh, fun challenge. One would probably have to break out the math, but I'm not smart enough for that. I'd go for this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WcSiTP!YWZ!cbaacZ

    I think rend every 3 seconds will be superior to CotA in longer fights - and since we now have a fury spender, Beserker Rage is changed to Animosity.
    You make a good point with Rend, though I see not why you'd want to use it over Smash; yes, HotA/Smash deals 1% less damage, but it has an innate 5% critical chance, which definitely outweights the damage. Once again, we'll have to see how long fights last to judge the usefulness of CotA in delivering damage.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snerra View Post
    However, for pure damage, I'd pick Weapon Throw (Dread Bomb) instead of Furious Charge: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WcfiTP!YWZ!cbcacZ With animosity, that's 460% weapon damage with a full fury bubble. Furious Charge adds some utility, and allows you to catch up to the monster (i.e. The Skeleton King), but if you ignore that possibility then Dread Bomb.
    We'd need someone to calculate the advantage of expanding fury with WT/Dread Bomb versus that of benefiting from Berserker Rage with Frenzy/Maniac.

    ---

    Good posts thus far, there's certainly a lot of thinking to be done here.



  7. #7
    IncGamers Member Snerra's Avatar
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    Re: The Barbarian single-target DPS challenge!

    Regarding Rend - hmm, yeah, Smash would seem like the better choice here. Missed that one :o


    Last edited by Snerra; 29-04-2012 at 23:51.

  8. #8
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    Re: The Barbarian single-target DPS challenge!

    Quote Originally Posted by ElementEight View Post



    I see what you're trying to do, but I fear the time you spend using an inferior damage dealing generator is going to hurt the overall DPS "chart". It does open up the possibility of using Bash x 2, Hammer of the Ancients x 1 repeatedly in order to have it benefit from Berserker Rage.

    Overpower in my build is for 10% more crit for 6 sec and I was thinking Bash x1 HotA x1 but for this you need -5Fury Hota weapon and +3fury per hit... hard to get but imho it would make top single target dps especially with high crit rate. And yes keep BR up all the time.

    Why do you call Bash inferior? even with bash x2 and high crit rate thx to other skills, it should bring high single target dps.



  9. #9
    IncGamers Member Snerra's Avatar
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    Re: The Barbarian single-target DPS challenge!

    Quote Originally Posted by ElementEight View Post
    We'd need someone to calculate the advantage of expanding fury with WT/Dread Bomb versus that of benefiting from Berserker Rage with Frenzy/Maniac.
    It's pretty difficult to calculate with precision because of how fury works (you also gain fury when being hit), and because I'm terrible at math, meaning below calculations should be taken with a grain of salt. Instead, I'll just simplify it, and assume you only get fury when attacking: 3 fury per attack or 3,3 fury per attack with Animosity passive.

    WT/Dread Bomb with Animosity VS Frenzy/Maniac with Berserker Rage

    I used these formulas to calculate dps and attack speed: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4661688166

    So, these are the assumptions for the test:
    - Dual-wielding two weapons with 20 average damage (not dps) and 1.3 APS.
    - The engagement happens with 5 stacks of Frenzy and full fury.
    - 2.6 APS with 5 stacks of Frenzy.

    The time frame for the calculation will be the time it takes to refill your 120 Fury bubble using Frenzy with Animosity, which is 14 sec.

    I'm just going to skip to the conclusion for now, and not post the calculations.

    Our DPS with Frenzy at 5 stacks is 90,43. The damage of Dread Bomb with 120 fury is 92. That pretty much says it all, but anyway... This results in the following damage output over 14 seconds:

    Damage of Dread Bomb with Animosity followed by 14 seconds of Frenzy = ~1358
    Damage of Frenzy with Berserker Rage for 14 seconds = ~1582,53


    I've actually not included the cast speed of Dread Bomb, because I don't know what it would be. For that reason, Dread Bomb looks a little stronger than it is...

    Even so, it's overwhelmingly in the favour of the Frenzy/BR combo, but one has to keep in mind that in-game, a barbarian will gain fury A LOT faster, since you gain fury when taking damage. I presume that Animosity (increases fury generation by 10%) will also increase the fury gained when being hit. So in situations where you are being hit a lot, I could see Dread Bomb evening the gap. But yeah, it seems like Frenzy with Berserker Rage is better against a single target.

    Edit: fixed a mistake.


    Last edited by Snerra; 01-05-2012 at 11:41.

  10. #10
    IncGamers Member Superstate's Avatar
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    Re: The Barbarian single-target DPS challenge!

    @Snerra

    A few things,
    You are biasing it too heavily to fit Frenzy/Maniac BR I'm afraid. You can't neglect ramp-up time and above all the fury build-up time. Also, the dual-wielding APS of two 1,3 weapons when using Frenzy and zero gear IAS is 2,47 with 5 stacks of Frenzy. Dread Bomb is cast at 1,625 APS in this case. Did you think of inclusion problems when including Dread Bomb (it takes out Frenzy damage)?

    I'm not saying the conclusion is wrong, however all the numbers are as a consequence of using the wrong APS. You've used a biased scenario and as such, the analysis is moot.



    Quote Originally Posted by ElementEight View Post
    We'd need someone to calculate the advantage of expanding fury with WT/Dread Bomb versus that of benefiting from Berserker Rage with Frenzy/Maniac.
    Decimation is your friend.


    Last edited by Superstate; 01-05-2012 at 13:55.

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