Zombie Dogs CD

[jamesL]

I played the beta and it seems like the dogs go down really fast when they meet unique packs or a huge group of monsters.

I'm not even sure if the skill is viable for the later difficulties, perhaps the Gargantuan is better?

I had a totally different experience in the open beta
but of course I only did multiplayer, so other players did lots of damage
I used mainly Zombie Dogs, Grasp of the Dead and Jungle Fortitude
and my dogs only died when they fought the SK

the best thing about them is they took care of his summons while we concentrated on the SK

but, yeah, I don't think dogs will be viable in Inferno
they may not even make it to Hell

my only hope is the Fierce Loyalty and Zombie Handler passives are good enough and that monk's healing applies to dogs (never could tell in the open beta if it did or not)

Jungle Fortitude = Reduces all damage taken by you and your pets by 20%.


Zombie Handler = You can have 4 Zombie Dogs summoned at one time. The health of your Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan is increased by 20%.


Fierce Loyalty = All your pets get 100% of the benefit of your Thorns and Life regeneration items.

[HardRock]

I don't think dogs will be viable in Inferno
they may not even make it to Hell

Define viable.

I think they will be amazing, even if they live only for 20 seconds. Even then the damage they absorb for you will make them very useful, probably more than other defensive skills. The problem is that the usefulness of a skill like ZD is hard to quantify compared to something like Frost Nova or Blinding Flash.

Then you have to think about HC. If you disconnect (and you will from time to time) Horrify won't be able to save you, but the dogs could. The dogs are a doctor's best friends.

[z00t]

Bashiok recently tweeted that petless builds are more challenging to execute well than a build with pets. It'd be very unusual for him to NOT be talking about the endgame when discussing whether or not something is viable, so I'm sure that pets will be fine in Inferno.

[Smash]

No, I ignored what you said because I didn't have a problem with dogs dying constantly when I played beta. And I already answered the tank thing, but here it is again: You shouldn't be able to rely on a single spell for every enemy. Barbs can't efficiently bash their way through huge crowds, WD's can't use dogs to tank bosses. "Viable" doesn't mean "the single solution for every problem."

"VIABLE" means useful for something.
Bash is for big boys, Cleave is for trash and what Zombie dogs are for?
You didn't have problem with dogs dying constantly because beta was very easy, but they were dying and if they were dying in such early stage what will be later?

Smash, why are you hostile towards this idea? If people want to play as a class which focuses mainly on their pets, should they not be allowed to? It's just a playstyle difference. I see no reason why foregoing offensive casting capability for stronger pets would be a bad idea.

Once you get your pets to a point where they are extremely tough to kill, the usefulness of the skill should be inherent. If the Diablo 2 Necromanacer is anything to go by, the durable pets will be there to distract and damage enemies while you sit back and cast spells in relative safety.

What this ultimately means is that the WD will not have to equip as many defense-oriented items because the WD has used summons to help with that role. Perhaps the WD can now take some pieces of gear that would otherwise be deemed too risky by a character without durable summons. The gear equipped can have more offensive affixes on it because the pets are the ones who will be taking damage.

First, minion class is my fav and i am big Necro fun. We are talking about how useful Zombie Dogs are not about pets or no pets.
And i just say that in current state they are weak overall which i very dislike. I do not know why you was mislead.
Currently Zombie Dogs are worst than D2 Druid wolves... in every shape and form. Jay said that they are for socking damage, but they do not do this job too well, SK fight is great example and with 60CD...

cut

The only way WD could kill as fast as other classes was with firebat spell but it is not problem, huge CD on Zombie Dogs spell is problem. If they will be dying during pinch situation people will exchange them for more reliable defensive spell that do not have such high CD.

Despite what people saying that dogs are weak, my dogs never died in the beta outside the Leoric fight. Not once. I don't know where this idea came from that we'll need to invest heavily into ZD's to make them viable, but it has no basis in reality so far in my experience.

If you want to rely on just one defensive skill to stay alive then you should damn well be ready to invest into it, but that's true for any class as I doubt any of them will have a skill that will be a life saver in every single situation you'll encounter in the game.

Your argumentation is weird, other classes do not need to invest in they life saver mechanics,f.e. barb leap is good to go from start.
Did you ever left them for a little to take damage? Beta mobs were dying like flies so most of time your pets didn't take too much damage plus Circle of Life probably was kicking from time to time.
That is why i wrote you could saw them dieing in hard situation which were very, very rare in beta.

Bashiok recently tweeted that petless builds are more challenging to execute well than a build with pets. It'd be very unusual for him to NOT be talking about the endgame when discussing whether or not something is viable, so I'm sure that pets will be fine in Inferno.

We will see if Zombie Dogs will be in my spells slot in hell/inferno. I didn't spoil myself with WD spells because i want enjoy discovering them so theorycrafting is out of my range

[Greymouse]

The only way WD could kill as fast as other classes was with firebat spell but it is not problem, huge CD on Zombie Dogs spell is problem. If they will be dying during pinch situation people will exchange them for more reliable defensive spell that do not have such high CD.

Yeah, in theory the CD can be circumvented with passives + runed skills that proc them, but it's all just theory until then. Guess we'll see. =]

As for killing speed, i tried bats + SH but it wasn't viable when the other players leaping/dashing to them first. So i switched to haunt + splinter darts + (occasional) sacrifice and it felt competitive. i'm sure there are better combos, but that's where i ended up with the options available.

[Darkmere]

Yeah, I still never had dogs dying very often. So, ........ well that's all I got.

[HardRock]

barb leap is good to go from start.

Except if you meet an Elite with a Vortex mod, which can pull back into melee range constantly. In that case you'll want Ground Stomp.

Did you ever left them for a little to take damage?

I have never became idle and let them fight alone if that's what you mean. Why would I have done that?

Beta mobs were dying like flies so most of time your pets didn't take too much damage plus Circle of Life probably was kicking from time to time.
That is why i wrote you could saw them dieing in hard situation which were very, very rare in beta.

I very rarely used Circle of Life. There were more than enough health orbs in the beta to keep the dogs alive. Even against Leoric you can keep them alive most of the time, if you don't let them run into Leoric's first whirlwind.

Fact is, we have no evidence that they will be weak against normal monsters later in the game, just like we don't have evidence that they won't be, but the limited beta content points to the latter. Don't panic.

[MrDooms]

I will pose this question here instead of starting a new thread.

One of the runed traits gives a 35% ability for a creature that dies can spawn a zombie dog. What if we already have the max of 4 zombie dogs out? Will we be strictly limited to 4 dogs at any time?

[HardRock]

You can't have more than 3 or 4 (with Zombie Handler) dogs at a time, ever. When you have the maximum number of dogs out and an ability summons a new one then one dog will die. I tried this in the beta with the Circle of Life passive.

[Illgore]

Omg some comments here have driven me so nuts that I had to make an account here ^^

Despite what people saying that dogs are weak, my dogs never died in the beta outside the Leoric fight. Not once. I don't know where this idea came from that we'll need to invest heavily into ZD's to make them viable, but it has no basis in reality so far in my experience.

If you want to rely on just one defensive skill to stay alive then you should damn well be ready to invest into it, but that's true for any class as I doubt any of them will have a skill that will be a life saver in every single situation you'll encounter in the game.

^100% singed

The WD is not the Necro from D2 who could just rely on his pet army and spam a single curse (only changed for bosses), wow rly boring. I just played a summon Necro myself a few weeks ago and it is rly boring and almost no skill needed. I was running Hell with negativ resistances (only exception lighting) with no problems and was just spamming a single curse as I said..
And I like the fact that u have to invest almost all skillslots if u wanna make your WD pets maybe comparable with Necro pet.

On the other side, as its said in HArdRocks Quote:
My pets only died 2 times. The first was only a test to watch how long it takes until they die in combat if I dont cast anything and dont pick up health globes. The second time was at the beginning of the SK fight. I waited for the SK to summon his minions and countered with my ZD summon. My ZD agroed the Bossadds and everything was fine.

I guess that people who had experienced problems with ZD just played to passiv / defensiv / slow.
You shouldn't wait for your ZD to start a fight. Just do dmg ASAP by yourself instead of waiting for your ZD. This ist not WoW and agro is working here rly different. The next point I wanna mention is the use of Health Globes. The droprate is high enough to keep ZD alive all the time. You should watch the healthbars of your pets infight too, to use Healtglobes if they need them, not only if u need heal.

I really had no issues with ZD. I was playing offensive and still took care of my pethealtbars. If u had problems with ZD, try to change your play style when D3 goes live. You ll see how good ZD can be.

now to the Topic^^:
As many others said, I think the CD is fine and won't be changed cause of Sacrifice. But since your pets will take agro, it should be not that much of the problem to use Grave Injustice and push the CD down.

I hope my English is comprehensible, cause it's not my native language and I'm out of practice.