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  1. #101
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Quote Originally Posted by Hideo View Post
    The main problem I have with D3 gameplay is that now its ALL about items. Also, there will be no bartering because of GAH and you can shell out 100 bucks to get uber stuff on RMAH. These features simply kill the longevity of the game in my eyes.
    AFAIK there's more to the gameplay than items, I'm pretty sure I read about crazy stuff like player and character skills.



  2. #102
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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    when d2 first launched corpse explosion was the most godly skill in the game. the necro was easy mode like you wouldnt believe
    Later in D2, corpse explosion was still one of the better skills in the game.



  3. #103
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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbanshee View Post
    More than a few probably. What I'm actually more interested in is how quickly they dry up after release. Also, page 8. Just Say'n
    apparently, never as long as you have many thin-skinned posters willing to jump on the grenade for Blizz by trying to persuade the OP he's not really seeing an elephant in the room. usually one sees this combination of obfuscation and soothing blizz-like PR happy talk in response to a simple question in a Bashiok post. lulz..now that's funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiroptus View Post
    I have to agree with this, its more that skills are rather like a loadout. Just like in DMC3 you could select the nunchuck/pistol loadout, in D3 it will feel more like it. Its a different approach to it, but it certainly feels more like a loadout screen of an action game than an RPG skill system.
    pretty much, except D3 gives you a screen to passively watch all the numbers change as you level up, change items, etc and isn't a skill based game with deep combat (sorry guys, D3 doesn't qualify). the design can work well for action games, but it becomes common example of dumbed down game design in D3.



  4. #104
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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Quote Originally Posted by mr punk View Post
    pretty much, except D3 gives you a screen to passively watch all the numbers change as you level up, change items, etc and isn't a skill based game with deep combat (sorry guys, D3 doesn't qualify). the design can work well for action games, but it becomes common example of dumbed down game design in D3.
    your opinion..

    I am not sure how deep combat will be in later levels.. but I have yet to see deep combat in some FPS ..just saying..



  5. #105
    IncGamers Member BohemianStalker's Avatar
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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    What I dont really get about diablo 3 skill system is inability to provide us with skillpoints in its current state. Instead of giving my Witch Doctor- Grasp of the dead -on level 2, I would like to get a skillpoint! With which I could unlock any skill.

    If normal is easy mode(which they stated is) then why are we in guided mode with skills? Why I had to wait for my fetish armor till level 30?

    Also, all the skills are balanced and viable now. So there is not really one best defense skill or one best attack skill and so on. Then why dont give me my treat, my reward? One skill point and maybe 2 rune points with which I could unlock skills according to me!

    I am sorry my Diablo friends but system is dumbed down and if you cant see it you are blinded by hype or by 12 years. You are like Morpheus in Matrix, believing something so strongly that you are giving everything for it. To me, inability to choose what I want even though everything is balanced leads me to conclusion that my hand is being guided very strongly in some direction.

    I also don t feel rewarded for leveling up, for its your thing what are you gonna do with your reward and how are you going to spend it. No, my reward is being chosen for me for no reason. (My character could not survive with spirit barrage or wall of zombies instead of grasp of the dead on level 2 ? )

    P.S.

    When me and my two of friends started in open beta, we liked it very much. However in first moments we were like wtf? "Why do you John-barbarian have same life as Peter-wizard"? Well this is just another proof of dumbing down, why dont barbarians have more life at start? Also the 30% dmg reduction on melee chars is lame. Really lame since its invisible number and you cant read about it anywhere, its poor solution to repair poor design(melees werent able to survive in inferno) but thats another story.



  6. #106
    IncGamers Member beingmused's Avatar
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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    I can't wait until Diablo 4, when all of the people crying about how D3 has "dumbed down" D2 (not that there is anything about D2's skill system that particularly requires intelligence) will be complaining about every little thing D4 does differently than D3. I bet some of them also raised hell 13 years ago that D2 was ruining everything that was great about D1.

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemianStalker View Post
    When me and my two of friends started in open beta, we liked it very much. However in first moments we were like wtf? "Why do you John-barbarian have same life as Peter-wizard"? Well this is just another proof of dumbing down, why dont barbarians have more life at start? Also the 30% dmg reduction on melee chars is lame. Really lame since its invisible number and you cant read about it anywhere, its poor solution to repair poor design(melees werent able to survive in inferno) but thats another story.
    Why should Barbarians inherently have more life? They get more toughness than other characters from their strength and resistances, which is a more elegant solution than having vitality work differently for each class. The only thing that is "dumbed down" is the fact that this apparently befuddles you.



  7. #107
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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Quote Originally Posted by xManiaCCCx View Post
    I am not sure how deep combat will be in later levels.. but I have yet to see deep combat in some FPS ..just saying..
    it's still a click fest like D2 and deep combat wasn't it strength either. also, don't really play FPS, but apparently you do. lulz..you have my deepest sympathies.



  8. #108
    IncGamers Member BohemianStalker's Avatar
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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Quote Originally Posted by beingmused View Post
    Why should Barbarians inherently have more life? They get more toughness than other characters from their strength and resistances, which is a more elegant solution than having vitality work differently for each class. The only thing that is "dumbed down" is the fact that this apparently befuddles you.
    You dont know what are you talking about, melee classes in diablo 3 have invisible 30% dmg reduction just because they are barbarians or monks. Also you understand that 30% dmg reduction = same as having 30% more life right? Which proves my point , barbarians and monks inherently have more life. It is also logical and traditional when it comes to pc gaming (you might want to check some classic titles like bg2).

    Hidden 30% damage reduction is lame. 30% more life would be more ellegant solution as we naturally expect barbarians and monks endure more injuries, because they dedicted their lifes to perfection of their bodies - first through exercises and trials and second trough meditation and martial training.

    Also, next time try to be less rude, these are nice forums.

    Have a nice day



  9. #109
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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    More HP does not = dmg reduction. More HP would mean also needing more health orbs to fully heal up, putting barbs/monks at a disadvantage if orbs drop less frequently in later difficulties. You could balance that, if you wanted, but tweaking it would require editing character HP's/armor/health orb heals per class... less elegant than one value that can be easily changed for similar effect, that most players won't notice or care about.

    Also, using older mechanics just because they've been used before in other games leads to lack of creativity. Look at other video game genres for examples. If I wanted to play half-done derivative rip-offs I'd be playing Torchlight.



  10. #110
    IncGamers Member dragon457's Avatar
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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Check this out:

    Skills unlock in a particular order in DIII for each class. This has led to some people complaining about not getting the skills they want to center their build around until later in the game. If you take a look at the class pages on the DIII b.net site, you'll notice that all active skills for every class are unlocked by level 30. After level 30, you get a few of your remaining passive skills and rune variants of your active skills. Runes, of course, actually change what the active skills either do, look like, or both. In any case, there are no active skills obtained after 30, and by all means the skills you do receive at 30 aren't necessarily the most powerful skills for each class.

    In DII you cannot obtain your bottom tier skills until level 30 (whoa, really? yes, really.) In many instances these are considered some of your most powerful skills; Frozen Orb, Whirlwind, and Fanaticism are just a few of these skills. There was no way, other than the possibility of oskill items, to get to these skills faster. You had to reach level 30. No amount of skill points (one of the things so many people here complained about missing in DIII) could unlock them faster. Not only that, but once these skills were unlocked, no amount of skill points made them behave any differently. Adding points to skills did one of only a few things; they changed the damage the skill would do and/or would change the duration of the skill. Nothing changed how the skill would fundamentally behave. Furthermore, especially for casters, once the cap in skill point placement was reached for either the skill or its synergies, the only way to increase their damage was through skill point attributes on weapons. This would tend to limit many class combinations to using very specific gear or they would be very sub-optimal.

    The very nature of many of the skills DII limited their usefulness as "end game" viable. When was the last time you made a Hell viable Sorc that used Ice Bolt or Frost Nova as its main attack? You didn't, because they simply couldn't do enough damage to make them useful past Nightmare. In the case of Ice Bolt, its usefulness didn't really go beyond Normal. Because of this you simply didn't put points into them other than 1 as a prereq to get to other skills farther down the tree. It was just a waste otherwise. How, then, did this add to customization? There were many, many skills that no one who wanted to get past Normal ever used because they were simply useless after a certain point. Their being limited to skill points and non-scaling damage took them out of the customization pool. All of this leads to each class only having a handful of skills that are truly Hell viable. Other than putting points into a skill to synergize one of those handful of useful skills, you would never actually use those synergy skills.

    So, with all this said, what exactly is the "no customization" of DIII referring to? If you complained because there are no skill points to distribute among skills, what would you expect those points to actually do to a skill in DIII? Augment their damage? Well, that's why skills are % weapon damage based. You may not like that system, but in the end it makes the amount of damage a skill can do increase indefinitely, something DII didn't/couldn't do. As you get more powerful weapons, your skill damage increases. In DII that only applied to weapons that had +skill points on them (for most caster type skills) or the damage of melee skills would go up with +dmg, +skill, +elemental dage, etc. for melee skills (something that's a bit unfair to caster builds). The way it is in DIII makes it fair to every class, no matter what kind of skills a class uses.

    Would skill points then augment the behavior of the skills? That's what runes do. I suppose you could argue that not getting the rune you want at level 30 is what's aggravating you, but consider that after level 30 in DII the only thing that changed for your class was damage output. By 30 the addition of anything new was, well, done. Now you actually have new things to look forward to after 30. Sure, you might not get Raging Storm until level 36, but that doesn't stop you from getting Energy Twister way back at level 13, nor does it stop the damage of it from going up with progressively better weapon damage until you unlock Raging Storm.

    This argument is being beaten to death. The horse died months ago. No matter what any of us thinks of it now, it is the way it is. Blizz won't be changing it unless at some point it becomes broken; they're not going to change it because of the perceived lack of options some people think it gives. On average, DII classes had 30 unique skills to choose from, with only a handful of those realistically useful past Normal/Nightmare. DIII, with the inclusion of rune effects, has many times more than that with most, if not all, of them end-game useful. Where's the lack of customization?




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