Which levelling system do you prefer more? D3/WoW's or D2's? der=0

[The Rockman]

Right, that was because D2 skills were not balanced as well as it could have been, which led to cookie-cutter builds and thus very few viable endgame skills. However, had the skills been balanced, the level mechanics of the game would potentially allow for all skills to be viable, which could have greatly increased build variation.
Snip

Nope as if all skills where balanced then you ran into problems, theres no way to do what you want in a D2 style system.
Why? Well because ethier A theres no point in getting a high tier skill when you can get a higher rank in a tier 1 skill that would be better then the high skill, so the higher skills need to be stronger right? But then you make the tier 1 skills useless as getting these = waste of skill points.
So how to fix it? W
ay to fix it is to ethier A: remove the skill tree and have all skills adviable from level 1 <- But this kills the reasons for leveling.
B is to make the skill scale with charater level some how <- This is what D3 gone for with damage being depending on weapon damage.
But you still have the problem of why buy higher level skills when you will get better results by buying the level of your Tier 1 skill or why buy tier 1 from tier 2 is better pointwise.

So need to fix this how?
Here how by removing the spend a skill point to level skill power and just have it unlockable. Any other way will be really hard as it runs into the problem of skill X is better then Y for spending my points in.

So Blizzard have really come up with the only system that can solve these problems, unlock skills only and scaled items (via weapons).

[Zorrah]

What I want is a game where the meat and potatoes of the game is while you are leveling. Truth be told, in vanilla WoW, before raids, the opening and much of the leveling content was on par with the end game content and what set it apart for me is that level 1-10 was actually fun, as opposed to when I played EQ and got bored around level 9 and everyone said, well just wait till you're level XX, it gets better. The beginning of a game should be like the intro to a book. Diablo II was fortunate in that if you didn't know to save your skill points, the 1-10 game is fun as you're screwing yourself over. However, by the time you realize you're screwing yourself over, you're hooked, and can search the guides and do better on you subsequent characters.

The Diablo II system though, whether or not you are "in the know" has the unfortunate feeling of making levels 6, 12, 18, 24, and 30 your most exciting levels, and 6 and 12 not so much because those levels won't have your end game skills quite as often. Oh, there are exceptions to that rule, particularly barbarian and necro right off hand. I supposed those are 2 things that made those classes great. Or perhaps 4 points in zeal for your zealadin.

Maybe that really is why people remember necro so fondly you don't have to save up points. You know, it's funny that we gripe about saving points, but really, sorceresses and elemental druids were really the worst offenders. Zeal was reasonably low leveled. Before the synergies and respecs, might aura was a decent 1 point wonder on account of it being a prereq, Barbs had masteries to pour points into, if you were a shapeshifter, lycanthropy was only a level 1 skill that had positive effects on your endgame, even martial arts assassins weren't too put out by throwing early points into masteries or speed.

[Arumot]

DII, I liked being able to do end game (level 85-90) and still have something to slowly chip away at without there being a huge incentive. Basically all level 80s-90s were perfectly capable of doing everything endgame and had no real PVE or PVP disadvantage compared to the people who grinded out 99. It was just nice to "feel rewarded" every now and then with a couple bonus stat points and utility skill points.

[byrneda]

I'm actually playing D2 at the moment and am having difficulty with allocating points to skills and attributes (str, dex, vit, mana).
If it wasn't for the help of the incgamers mumble guys (a really nice bunch), I'd never have known which build would be best (zeal, fanatacism and holy shield), I'd have given up rather quickly, and tried going for a barb again.

I also betamaxxed the open beta when it was on within 30 hours, and I felt that the removal of the which-points-to-go-where (or hold some in reserve) was a major boon in my book. The fun factor was in, and I could pick and choose what skills I wanted depending on what came up.
I've played numerous other RPGs in the past, and I've never come across a more invigorating and thoroughly enjoyable skill system such as D3.

Granted, Amalur has a cool way of completely changing one's character from being a wizard to a warrior, and D3 is another variation of this.

So to finish, simplicity rules, fun is in and I get to concentrate more on the item game which is what Diablo III is all about.
Kudos Blizzard.

[Nobody Special]

Even if you enjoy no skill system where does the replay value come from? lvl 1-60 in D3 is going to be lvl 1-60 in D3. If you go with a different class then you are gonna get a change of taste, but D2 had the beauty of learning as you go and fixing what you messed up. D3 with its auto-skill and auto-stats made me sad as a longterm D1 and D2 fan.

On the other hand as stated before it can now cater to the "casual" players desire to have a character that they cannot possibly mess up. Even though this game mechanic doesn't appeal to me as i like optimization, and thus get replayability out of it.

For blizzard this concept of you cant mess up your character now pulls a new fanbase while maintaining the search for great gear will hold most of the classic base. This was their way of optimizing profits and fanbase rather than maintaining their mainstream popular game mechanics. This is a stroke of genius on behalf of blizzard, but for a longterm fan such as myself, that has come to expect the skills and stats to have an effect on endgame rather than gear being the say all and end all of characters, it has come as a cheap shot to my expectations.

I see many saying that the fact you had to hold skill points and stat points to max out your build was a big turn-off for them on D2, but wasn't that where some of the replay value came from? The fact that you could be better if only you had done this rather than that, and it got the gears in the brain working to better your character. Why then would you say it was a bad system, as you then went back and was willing to put those extra hours in to try that new build you thought up? D2 was such a wonderful game for these very reasons, a properly statted character could run the hell difficulty with minimal gear requirements, while this other character had been poorly built, and thus needed the godly gear to reach the same effect.

I just personally feel as though Blizzard took the easy route out, and rather than giving us a system with even a miniscule amount of personal change and effect on our characters directly has become another cookie cutter, better gear = better character and what you have done until then has no effect on endgame cookie cutter game.

Sorry for the tirade but D3 really let me down on what i expected, and i know there are others that feel like me, but also others that love the new system. As i said in beginning, i just feel its catering to the casual player to pull new fanbase, rather than catering to the dedicated player that has been there since the beginning.

[Raesene]

All the old system did was make people who were "in the know" have stronger characters than those who didn't read guides before clicking any of the red plus buttons. It's great for the ego, but I don't think it does anything to improve the gameplay. I don't mind, because I'm sure Diablo 3 will provide me many opportunities to feel superior to other players.

[Darkmere]

I'd rather be playing relevant content than going through normal/nightmare again to try different builds. There's still the option to play as you like in D2 and D3, and I will be leveling some classes multiple times. Now, it's my choice to do so when I enjoy it, not rush past mid-game because I like playing X build to farm Y boss more.

[Andy2702]

In hindsight, the new paragon system is an attempt to mimic the old D2-style 1-99 level progression. Why? Because it was more appropriate for the genre.

[rugga]

In hindsight, the new paragon system is an attempt to mimic the old D2-style 1-99 level progression. Why? Because it was more appropriate for the genre.

The paragon levels should have worked more like the AA system in EQ. That would have made the game more interesting. You would be able to make choices and specialize on a certain play style or improve your build.

[Simfish]

Just going through this thread made me realize that discussion on this website was actually better prior to the release of the game. Standards sure have changed. Diablo 2 replay value hinged on repetition of rather simple tasks, and some people enjoyed the feeling of seeing that experience bar fill up. WoW replay value hinged on actual new content, access to which is constrained by the gear that you had. I would say WoW's system is better, because it actually provides new things for people to do over the years, which is new game play in and of itself. I felt the problem with D3 was that it had neither new content, and did not emphasize any type of levelling progression through a repetition or grind, so it was different from both WoW and D2 in that respect.