How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless? der=0><

[z00t]

I plan on playing the WD without pets, and I know that there are other petless WD enthusiasts here.

Of course, it's not like I'm NEVER going to use pets, but 'petless' is currently my preferred playsytle. I'm just curious to see how many people here feel similarly, so vote away! :3

EDIT: For clarification, I only count the following as pets: Zombie Dogs, Gargantuans, and Fetishes summoned by Fetish Sycophants. They are the only real pets which last indefinitely, only leaving when they are killed.

Other skills, like Toad of Hugeness are, to me, just spells with a creature aesthetic. Toad of Hugeness isn't much different from Plague of Toads - it's a creature-themed spell which you or the enemy can't actually interact with.

Of course, I know everyone has different 'tolerance levels' as to what they may consider a 'pet' skill - let me know how YOU guys feel on the matter. I'm curious to hear different perspectives on what people consider to be 'pet' skills.

[pcguy]

We aren't sure which spells qualify as pets, yet.

As far as I know, we only have three different pet spells right now:
Zombie Dogs, Gargantuan, and Fetish Army

Other spells which may be classified as pets:
Spider Queen, Toad of Hugeness, Irradiating Slime (Lob Blob Bomb), and Creepers.

Edit: Removed Hex in response to z00t's comments

[Santosvella]

Petless forever.

For as long as I can remember the Evil/Dark/Necro/Warlock Caster archetype has always been the one I'm deeply attracted to in any game where it exists (and if not, I'll do everything in my power to shoehorn another class type into looking as close as possible to my favorite archetype ) but I always hated Summoner classes, save for the occasionnal lone Golem or beefy temp-summon here and there.

[z00t]

We aren't sure which spells qualify as pets, yet.

As far as I know, we only have three different pet spells right now:
Zombie Dogs, Gargantuan, and Fetish Army

Other spells which may be classified as pets:
Spider Queen, Toad of Hugeness, Hex, Irradiating Slime (Lob Blob Bomb), and Creepers.

I personally consider only Zombie Dogs, Gargantuans, and Fetishes summoned by Fetish Sycophants (presumably they last indefinitely) pets. Fetish Army doesn't count - to me, it's like Call of the Ancients. You don't really think of the Ancients as pets, even though they can be killed. I think summons need to last at LEAST a certain amount of time to count as true pets. 45 seconds from Fetish Army is too short, I think. Yeah, it's not a hard-and-fast rule - this is how I've felt subconsciously on the matter.

I say 'subconciously' because to me, the distinction is so natural that I didn't even consider the possibilty (until you brought it up) that other people may consider other skills to be 'pets' as well.

As far as I'm concerned, everything else is just a regular spell with a creature aesthetic. Not a real pet. To me, Toad of Hugeness is no different from casting Plague of Toads. It's not something which the enemy can really interact with. Same with Spider Queen.

Creepers is a possibility, but I suspect they don't last permanently.

To me, spells like Hex are just a spell with a creature aesthetic, not an 'actual' creature. How come people consider Hex a pet but not Locust Swarm for example? Locust Swarm is also a creature-aesthetic spell, and does its thing for a few seconds before disappearing. To me, the distinction of what is a pet and what is not is very clear.

I can kinda understand if people consider spells with a 'creature aesthetic' to count as pets, though. Some people may be even more of a purist than I am, and I know there are different levels of tolerances. For a very long time, I wasn't fond of Hex because I thought it 'felt' like a Summon. But in practice, it felt like I was just throwing out another spell. Since then, I've reached the way of thinking I have now about what does and does not count as a pet. Of all the beta skills (including Hex back when it was in), only when I use Zombie Dogs do I feel like I'm using a pet.

[WD pimpin summons]

I'm going to be using only pets!

And if I can't do that, then damn this game.

[pcguy]

A pet is something that is considered an Ally by the game. Allies can be damaged and buffed. I am quite confident that any version of Fetishes can be buffed. The video footage shows that they can be damaged and can be the focus of enemy attacks, and thus can probably also be healed and buffed.

Allies usually have life bars and also have A.I. which causes them to attack autonomously.

Hex has A.I.
- Hex does not have a life bar.
- Hex cannot be targetted by attacks, and thus cannot be buffed

You are correct about that one, and I will remove it from the list.

Similarly, Corpse Spiders have A.I. but do not have life bars, so they are not on the list.

Exception: Is Leah considered an ally?
Yes. She does not have a life bar because she is an essential NPC.

There is a chance that Spider Queen and Toad of Hugeness may still be allies, though. We have no proof that they are not susceptible to damage.

[z00t]

Is that actually an official definition? :P That anything that can be damaged and buffed is considered an 'Ally'?

In any case, the standards I described are my own - I don't claim them to be a global one. It's how I've always perceived what is a pet and is not, and still do.

As for Spider Queen and Toad of Hugeness, no, we don't know for a fact that they can be interacted with, but going by what we've seen, it really doesn't look like they can be interacted with. I'd even bet on it...if I was a betting man :P.

[pcguy]

Is that actually an official definition? :P That anything that can be damaged and buffed is considered an 'Ally'?

The Definition of Ally

The official description for Big Bad Voodoo:
Conjure a Fetish that begins a ritual dance that increases the attack speed and movement speed of all nearby allies by 20% for 20 seconds.

Consider the following:
Big Bad Voodoo applies to anything considered an ally.

IF
It is affected by Big Bad Voodoo
THEN
It is an ally.

Will Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan be affected by Big Bad Voodoo? Almost certainly.

IF
Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan are affected by Big Bad Voodoo
THEN
Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan are allies.

The Definition of Pet

The official description of Fierce Loyalty:
All your pets get 100% of the benefit of your Thorns and Life regeneration items.

Consider the following:
Fierce Loyalty specifies "your pets" in the description.

IF
It is affected by Fierce Loyalty
THEN
It is a pet.

Will Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan be affected by Fierce Loyalty? Almost certainly.

IF
Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan are affected by Fierce Loyalty
THEN
Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan are pets.

How This Applies to other Spells

Fetishes are most likely going to be considered pets, regardless of their duration.

It has been seen in videos that they take damage.
If it is summoned by the player and it takes damage, it probably has a life bar. If it has a life bar, then it can regenerate life. If it can regenerate life, there is a good chance the Fierce Loyalty passive skill applies to it.
So... if something can take damage, and it has been summoned by the Player Character, it must be a pet.

[z00t]

Oh I see, yeah that makes sense.

I guess that for me, an 'ally' is different from a 'pet'. To me, something as transcient as the Ancients from Call of the Ancients don't last long enough to 'feel' like a pet. They have transcience built into them, and so do the Fetishes from Fetish Army. They just feel like a powerful, temporary spell ala Big Bad Voodoo.

Zombie Dogs, Gargantuans, and Fetishes created by Fetish Sycophants last indefinitely, as far as I'm aware, and so are the only true pets in my eyes. By my definition, Wrathful Protector for the Gargantuan wouldn't count as a pet.

I gotta say though, I'm still debating with myself if I should count Fetish Army as a pet or not. 45 seconds isn't very long, but is it long enough? :P

In any case, I know everyone's got different 'tolerence levels'. Not too long ago, I considered Hex to be close enough to a Summon that I wasn't too hot on it.

[WD pimpin summons]

Summoning philosophy in this thread.