3-4 Monks in Inferno. A magical experience!

[Such Violent Storms]

I can see it now.

Four highly skilled monks side by side in the front lines. CW spam with 18% Foresight and 15% Blazing Wrath buffs -- Blazing Wrath doubling as a heal to your nearby monks and one player with the Guiding Light passive for another 16% damage to anyone healed.

Each one using a different Mantra:
Overawe-runed MoC
???-runed MoH
Transgression/Retaliation-runed MoR (Tricky which one is better... would have to work the numbers)
???-runed MoE

Perhaps a Barbarian instead of the fourth Monk. Barbs provide shout buffs and are melee, so they take advantage of being up with the monks. In which case: which mantra should be replaced?

What are your ideas/thoughts? Post builds of some insane damage Monk Madness? Gogogo!

[FulItilt]

So the Mantras definitely stack?

[WhiteGiant]

just imagine this build

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...ijk!ZXU!ZabbbZ

+

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...gkV!bVe!Z.YZbc

thats a total of - 75% dmg dealt and - 35% attackspeed

which seems pretty imba on paper i wonder if those debuffs really stack additive

[HardRock]

Damage and attack speed debuffs probably work similarly to slow effects, which would mean that an enemy can be affected by multiple debuffs, but only the most powerful one will apply at any given moment.

[Such Violent Storms]

So the Mantras definitely stack?

Not the same Mantra, of course. If you had 4 Monks with Overawe runed MoC, it wouldn't be 96% more damage. If you had 3 Monks with unruned MoC (12%) and one Monk with Overawe (24%), it would use the highest at 24%. But Mantra's with completely different effects do "stack" if that's even the right term. They just give their effects. MoC increases damage, MoE increases dodge, etc. As long as it's different it applies.

Damage and attack speed debuffs probably work similarly to slow effects, which would mean that an enemy can be affected by multiple debuffs, but only the most powerful one will apply at any given moment.

I think enemies can be affected by multiple debuffs and will be affected by each one as long as they're different; a Monk hitting with Resolve (-25%) and Barbarian with Threatening Shout (-20%) would reduce damage by -45%, but 2 Barbarians both using Threatening Shout doesn't give you a "Mega Threatening Shout" and would only reduce damage by -20%.

[HardRock]

Maybe, but ready yourself for the possibility, that enemy damage may be reduced by only 25% in that case.

[WhiteGiant]

i think thats rather unlikely ; i mean the monk alone can accumulate 55% dmg reduction. and if they dont stack it would be utterly stupid.

though maybe they stack in a multiplicative faishon like 1 / 1.25 (resolve) / 1.2 (crippling W) / 1.1 (mantra conviction) = 0.606

so instead of 45% remaining dmg (which would be the dmg if you'd only add the dmg reduction debuffs ) it would only be 60,6% dmg reduction.

maybe its even 1 * 0.75 (resolve) * 0,8 (crippling W) * 0,9 (mantra C) which would turn out to be 54%

though thats just speculation my part.

[HardRock]

And how would that be fair to other classes? The Monk already has an innate 30% damage reduction. A further 40% DR from our armor is guaranteed at level 60, since it will only require 2000 Armor. You can reach that with white gear. Then you would have this 55% or 60.6% enemy damage reduction on top of that. If the devs balance the game for this, then other classes will be one-shotted. The more I think about this the more unlikely I find that damage and attack speed debuffs will stack and I didn't even consider debuffs in a party yet.

They already should have learned this lesson from WoW. Some concepts can be applied to both games.

[WhiteGiant]

so what ? I could just aswell explain why i do not have ranged 17 yard ae skills or dozens of summons ; its not like you get those debuffs for free you have commit runes / rotations and passive skill slots to it ; also you need to hit first before any of those 45% dmg reduction is appllied at all ;

and what about things like archon / magic weapon / sparkflint familiar / conflaguration / glass canon /
Time Warp / disruption arcane torrent.
isnt it totally imba and unfair that all of these stack ?

3rd i find your analogy to WoW on this utterly disturbing / insulting ... this isnt WoW ; this are not 40-25 man raids *sigh*


PS also the dmg reduction is which is unique to barb and monk is is multiplicative aswell ;
its not like the average character has 50% mitigation whereas monks and Barbs have 80% its more like 65%.

i dont see any reasonable conclusion as to why they would not stack in one way or the other;

[HardRock]

its not like you get those debuffs for free you have commit runes / rotations and passive skill slots to it
; also you need to hit first before any of those 45% dmg reduction is appllied at all ;

Sure, but if these bonuses stack, then players won't care about the commitment, because it will mean ridiculous amount of damage reductions, especially in parties. At what point does the price of becoming nigh-invincible too high?

and what about things like archon / magic weapon / sparkflint familiar / conflaguration / glass canon /
Time Warp / disruption arcane torrent.
isnt it totally imba and unfair that all of these stack ?

Do they?

3rd i find your analogy to WoW on this utterly disturbing / insulting ... this isnt WoW ; this are not 40-25 man raids *sigh*

It wasn't my intention to insult you. However, WoW and D3 do have similar game mechanics (no matter how hard people try to deny this fact) and so you can learn many things from the failures of WoW which could benefit D3.

At the beginning, there was no restriction in debuff stacking in WoW at all. You know what happened? People did 40 man raids with 36 Mages, 2-3 healers and one tank. Some classes were considered completely worthless for certain fights. Things improved greatly, when debuffs were changed so only the most powerful effect could take place in any given time. For example, when a monster was affected by a 20% and 30% attack speed debuff simultaneously, then its attack speed was only reduced by 30% until the more powerful buff ended. Suddenly more or less every class became viable for almost any encounter, because the different types of debuffs they brought for the party became much more important. Oh how some of the classes have wept. Still, it was one the best things that happened to the game.

It doesn't matter that D3 doesn't have 40 man raids, the principle is the same. Incessant debuff and buff stacking will hurt class and build viability greatly.