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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member Wolfpaq777's Avatar
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    Can we PLEASE take off the rose tinted glasses?

    I'll start by saying I've been a member of this community (ii.net, not incgamers) for a very long time. I remember eagerly anticipating D2 and its expansion a year later LoD. I played the hell out of that game, and had an amazing time doing so. It is easily in my top 5 favorite games of all time. Probably top 3. However, in retrospect there were a lot of problems with it. Problems that seem to be getting completely ignored or, even worse, cited as "great" things about the game as people compare it to D3's beta in their "reviews". I thought I'd go through this list and try to put some of these rumors to rest.

    1. The bartering system of D2 was an amazing way to connect with the community.

    WHAT!?!?! Any time I hear someone praising, or even indirectly praising the D2 trading system I have a strong suspicions that that someone never actually played the game. Do you guys even remember what that hell consisted of? 3rd party sites. Spamming the trade channel. Joining trade games. WUW. WUG. Spam. Scams. Ripoffs. etc etc etc. Anyone who legitimately participated in this knows it was horrible. The D3 auction house is a godsend.

    2. D2 graphics were more dark and gothic

    Again, WHAT?!?!?! I can't believe someone has the cognitive dissonance to block out the entire outdoor areas of FOUR OUT OF FIVE ACTS. We've seen 1/3rd of D3's act 1. The Cathedral is very gothic looking, complete with gargoyles torture scenes and hidden passage ways. If anyone is truly advocating the return of light radius, I don't want to be associated with you. You are a terrible person.

    3a. There was so much to do in D2 games, D3 games are boring

    Excuse me? What D3 games are you referring to exactly? The closed/open beta ones that come to an abrupt end 40 minutes into the game? You are comparing this to 5 full acts from the entirety of D2 and the entirety of its expansion? I'm seriously shocked that I've seen more than 1 person making this "point". It is outrageous, especially given the definitive lack of meaningful things to do in D2 hell games. Pindle, shenk, baal, diablo, meph, rinse repeat. Council, pit, chaos, countess if you're bored. Nephalem Valor Buff > anything from D2 in terms of content encouragement.

    3b. D3's matchmaking system blows, D2's was much better and more friendly

    Ohhh man, if there was ever a statement more capable than #1 on this list of making me think you didn't play D2 this is it. What do you mean D2's was better? Do you remember what joining a public game consisted of? Scan the list hoping that people aren't lying about their titles. Select your game and join it praying that you a) the objective has not yet been completed and b) you manage to join the correct party before they manage to complete it. A huge percentage of public games were known as runs. Baal-1, Chaos-2, Trist-3, Tombs-4, Cows-5 etc etc, which were specialized games meant for maxing xp gain because of the retarded systems that made you reroll every time you got slightly better gear or made a mistake.

    4. D3 is missing D2's magic

    I can't imagine a more ridiculous statement than this. It pretty much translates to "I can't actually think about what it is I enjoy in games, so I'll fall back to a hopelessly generic cliche to get my point across". Terrible.

    Those are just some of the things I've been seeing. Some other massive issues with Diablo 2 that are completely fixed by D3:

    - Terrible crafting system
    - Awful friends list management, very limited in size and scope (multiple accounts per cd key exacerbated the problem)
    - Skill points, synergies, small % of viable end game skills, small # of viable end game builds
    - Characters deleted after 90 days of inactivity
    - LCS (lying character screen)
    - breakpoints (if you played D2 seriously, you know exactly what I'm talking about)
    - no respec, broken characters had to be deleted to be fixed. Inexcusable.
    - loot being first click first get... horrible. Big middle finger to ranged characters as well as many others.

    I probably could go on, I was able to pull all these off the top of my head. D2 was my go to game for half a dozen years, and even for a couple stretches after that, but let's stop pretending like it was the end all be all of fantasy ARPGs. D3 blows it out of the water in every way I just mentioned and some I haven't. It is head and shoulders above any of the copy cats, and soon enough we'll have the sales numbers to prove it (for lack of any other objective measure).




  2. #2
    IncGamers Member StarEater's Avatar
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    Re: Can we PLEASE take off the rose tinted glasses?

    ....and my zipper is broken on my pants!


    I agree with several of your points, but there's nothing much we can do except complain on twitter, and look where that got us.


    Last edited by StarEater; 23-04-2012 at 22:29.

  3. #3
    IncGamers Member MindGame's Avatar
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    Re: Can we PLEASE take off the rose tinted glasses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfpaq777 View Post

    1. The bartering system of D2 was an amazing way to connect with the community.

    WHAT!?!?! Any time I hear someone praising, or even indirectly praising the D2 trading system I have a strong suspicions that that someone never actually played the game. Do you guys even remember what that hell consisted of? 3rd party sites. Spamming the trade channel. Joining trade games. WUW. WUG. Spam. Scams. Ripoffs. etc etc etc. Anyone who legitimately participated in this knows it was horrible. The D3 auction house is a godsend.
    I completely agree with every point you make but this one. Matter of fact I'm thinking all of these things in my head whenever I read these forums most of the time.

    But I played D2 on and off for 10 years for thousands of hours and my absolute 100% favorite part of the game was trading. Bartering is fun. What trades for what isn't set in stone when there's no real end all currency. You can find one of a kind deals from people looking to move something quick, and dealing in ultra rare items who's value couldn't be easily assessed was always really fun to me. It was a really fun time trying to turn 1 SoJ into 5-10 in a day by playing the market.

    The AH makes an instant exact definition of exactly what every item is worth instantly by searching. To me that's not fun. I had a lot of fun hanging out in trade chat trying to make deals with people.. it was just a good break from constant grinding. D3 won't really have such a break besides PvP.

    I know most people didn't feel this way at all, but I can vouch for the fact that some of us that do played D2 every bit as much as you did.



  4. #4
    IncGamers Member iAmAhab's Avatar
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    Re: Can we PLEASE take off the rose tinted glasses?

    A very good read. Always laugh when people complain about how colourful Diablo 3 is. They obviously never experienced the fruit salads that often inhabited the screen.



  5. #5
    IncGamers Member Sex's Avatar
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    Re: Can we PLEASE take off the rose tinted glasses?

    Thanks for the post, I feel the same way to an extent. But as previous members have said, what can we do?



  6. #6
    IncGamers Member Rashiminos's Avatar
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    Re: Can we PLEASE take off the rose tinted glasses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfpaq777 View Post
    stuff
    1) Valid point. The AH will simplify trading immensely (bartering is time intensive).
    2) Here's a rule of thumb: If a person is mentioning graphics without describing an associated physical symptom (ie headache), then that's person's complaint is at best personal taste. At worst, that person's opinion is less useful than garbage.
    3a) Withholding judgement at the present time.
    3b) Autojoining random games can be useful,but sometimes one does want to join games with a vast level-gap. D2 is better for the latter.
    4) There are some people who over-emphasize their abilities in thinking about what they enjoy. Better to be vaguely right as opposed to specifically wrong.

    -Crafting aka gambling is worse so far. Pending guaranteed stats in late game, they'll be about the same between games.
    - Okay.
    -More like small numbers of people able to break the cookie-cutter molds with actual p. skill or talent.
    -Artifact of multiple accounts leading to unused char spam.
    - LCS not going anywhere. It lies less because it now says less.
    -Not signifcantly changed (I don't expect d3 to handle infinitesimals).
    -See comment about players not breaking molds. Some characters were not actually broken.
    -Valid.



  7. #7
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Can we PLEASE take off the rose tinted glasses?

    This was a very well thought out and presented post. Good job.



  8. #8
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Can we PLEASE take off the rose tinted glasses?

    Rose tinted glasses? You can still play Diablo 2. Like, right now.

    And what's wrong with light radius?




  9. #9
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Can we PLEASE take off the rose tinted glasses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfpaq777 View Post
    4. D3 is missing D2's magic

    I can't imagine a more ridiculous statement than this. It pretty much translates to "I can't actually think about what it is I enjoy in games, so I'll fall back to a hopelessly generic cliche to get my point across". Terrible.
    I absolutely agree with your overall point but I don't think this one's fair. Art & entertainment can't always be objectively quantified and judged. Sometimes you just don't feel that song/movie/book/painting/game/show/ect. You can tell me 1000 reasons why it's awesome but if you're not feeling it, it doesn't matter. Really, it's hard to explain why a game as enormously flawed as D2 was so fun and enduring. The only real answer: it had that "magic".

    Fortunately, I am very much feeling it.



  10. #10
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    Re: Can we PLEASE take off the rose tinted glasses?

    Reasonable Person: I like the Sun. It provides warmth and light, it brings life to nature.
    Wolfpaq777: WHAT!?!?! Any time i hear someone praising or indirectly praising the Sun i have a strong suspicion that that someone never actually went outside. Do you guys know what happens to you if you look directly in the Sun? You go BLIND. You like being BLIND? How can you visually enjoy nature if you are BLIND? And do you know what happens when you stand too long in the Sun? You get SKIN CANCER, do you know what it's like having SKIN CANCER? It's HELL. The Sun is horrible. Being locked up in a dark and damp cellar is a godsend.

    /thread



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