Will anyone really use bash/frenzy?

[GetMerked]

Here's a crit build I just slapped together, it seems viable for hell, maybe not inferno.
Frenzy/Maniac
Hammer/Birthright
Battle Rage/Into the Fray
Overpower/Killing Spree
WotB/Insanity
Earthquake/Mountain's Call
Boon of Bul-Kathos, Weapons Master, Ruthless

Pick up the biggest 2h axe, sword, or mace. Only thing it might be missing is a gap closer and greater survivability

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...QPT!SZY!ccYZZb

[Sulle]

In inferno you will need some strong single target skills also thereīs pvp. No doubt cleave will be nice to use in the beginning, but I doubt itīs uses when we reach the end game.

[galzohar]

PvP will most likely be all about bash. This discussion is obviously about PvE, as there is little point discussing PvP builds before we actually have some PvP experience due to the extreme complexity of PvP and the fact Blizzard isn't even done designing the PvP system yet.

Latest interview with Jay Wilson claims you'll need single target damage. I'm still unsold though on ditching cleave for bash/frenzy just for that, unless the biggest challenge in inferno is actually dealing with the rare boss after his minions are long dead. As long as the rare boss himself is easier once his minions are dead, you'd still prefer to have better AOE and less effective single target.

In the end cleave is much stronger than bash/frenzy for AOE in practically any imaginable situation, while bash/frenzy are a bit stronger than cleave for single-target situations. Taking both is unlikely to be an effective option in inferno where every skill slot is precious and used for survivability (or even damage boosts). That skill slot can go for something like battle rage, which might not bring cleave up to par in single target damage, but it still helps a lot and also helps your AOE.

To sum it up, unless Blizzard really make single-target by far the most important thing in the game, I don't see myself ditching cleave. Maybe, just maybe, I'll consider having bash/frenzy in one of the other skill slots, if single target is really as important as Jay Wilson is saying.

[Smash]

I'm the only source I know.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3595370796#10

+45

That low :(((.

PvP will most likely be all about bash. This discussion is obviously about PvE, as there is little point discussing PvP builds before we actually have some PvP experience due to the extreme complexity of PvP and the fact Blizzard isn't even done designing the PvP system yet.

Latest interview with Jay Wilson claims you'll need single target damage. I'm still unsold though on ditching cleave for bash/frenzy just for that, unless the biggest challenge in inferno is actually dealing with the rare boss after his minions are long dead. As long as the rare boss himself is easier once his minions are dead, you'd still prefer to have better AOE and less effective single target.

In the end cleave is much stronger than bash/frenzy for AOE in practically any imaginable situation, while bash/frenzy are a bit stronger than cleave for single-target situations. Taking both is unlikely to be an effective option in inferno where every skill slot is precious and used for survivability (or even damage boosts). That skill slot can go for something like battle rage, which might not bring cleave up to par in single target damage, but it still helps a lot and also helps your AOE.

To sum it up, unless Blizzard really make single-target by far the most important thing in the game, I don't see myself ditching cleave. Maybe, just maybe, I'll consider having bash/frenzy in one of the other skill slots, if single target is really as important as Jay Wilson is saying.

I will use both in early stage but later who knows. 7 days left

[HardRock]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3595370796#10

The tick rate of channeled skills is currently scaled by your weapon speed.

I have never experienced that in the beta with any DoTs and I did frame-by-frame comparisons of the tick rate with different weapons. I think Bashiok made a mistake in that post.

[galzohar]

You're talking about dots or channeled skills? Blue post obviously refers to channeled skills only. Nothing to do with how rend works since it's not channeled.

Besides, this blue post is pretty old.

[HardRock]

Blue post obviously refers to channeled skills only.

My mistake. He's still wrong though, because the displayed damage of channeled skills have a fixed 0.5 second tick rate as well, according to my and other peoples testing in the beta.

[galzohar]

What really matters though is the damage and cost per tick. If it goes up as you gain attack speed bonuses (keeping weapon damage constant), then he was practically right, even if not completely accurate. Same goes for if you use an equal DPS weapon that is faster, in which case you should deal same damage but still spend more resource.

Regardless, I really don't like slow ticks like that. CPUs nowadays should be good enough to let us do continuous damage, or at least damage that ticks fast enough to appear continuous.

[HardRock]

Damn, I always mess this up. The damage itself is continuous (more precisely the real tick rate is so fast that you can't see it) and the health bars reflect this, but the damage popups come every 0.5 second.

Bashiok obviously didn't mean the internal tick rate there (to which he later referred to as pulse rate), but the displayed damage ticks. That's why I said that he was wrong. The damage of DoTs and channeled skills is always displayed once every half a second as far as I could tell.

[galzohar]

Who cares how often damage is displayed? Most important is how often damage is dealt! Did you want them to just spam your monitor with "1"s flying all over?

At least now I know I wasn't crazy remembering ROF (which I haven't used too much) to deal what seemed to be continuous damage