Cleave needs a nerf pretty bad.
Cleave needs a nerf pretty bad.
I plan on starting a fight with that "rushing" skill with the rune that gives you additional Fury for each enemy you rush through, then I'll spam cleave with that explosion rune and from there I'll probably go with AOE skills.
Frenzy and bash might have a higher fury-generating potential, but it's not by much. You'll still be using them quite a lot more than you'll be using your spenders, as it seems, meaning their damage is still very important. And in damage, seems like nothing beats cleave in 98% of the cases, and even in single target situations, cleave isn't far behind.
It's funny how people bring up bash/frenzy with their AOE runes to compensate. Just shows how powerful AOE (and cleave) really are.
As for the explosion rune, it's only really powerful if monsters die fast, so in later levels that rune might not be as powerful as it is in the beta. But cleave has other very powerful runes too, so that doesn't really change the arguments in this thread anyway.
I use both in beta:
Cleave/Rupture for trash on RMB
Bash/clobber for tough monsters on LMB
My concerns are more about bash and frenzy.
I think Bash / Frenzy will be relevant as you get access to different spenders / other skills. The barb really lacks a solid single target damage skill, I don't really rate Bash in that role but Frenzy is perfect for it. I was thinking the same after playing the beta that cleave is more appropriate but as soon as things start living more than 1 or 2 hits Frenzy and to a lesser extent bash come back into play. I think the biggest problem with cleave is the strength of the first rune, its one of the reasons I moved away from Frenzy in the first place but again it will weaken as mobs begin to live longer / are more balanced health vs damage than the beta.
The only way I'll use single target skills is if mobs are so tough, that the only way to kill them would be to isolate them 1 by 1. But even that will most likely not be possible in most cases.
As for spenders, we only really have 4 spam-able ones - Hammer, Rend, Seismic Slam and Whirlwind. All are some sort of AOE, and seems like all require quite a few "generator" attacks in order to be able to use them once, meaning your generator's damage will always be important, and having a non-AOE skill in a situation with multiple (non-separable) targets is simply not optimal in any way. I wouldn't be saying that if frenzy/bash gave a significant amount more fury or at least had some semi-viable AOE capability, but they just don't seem to provide enough of either to compensate for not having cleave.
As for having 2 generators, I think the extra benefit of an extra support skill (which can help for both single target and AOE) will still be preferable to having slightly more single target damage.
I used Bash until Cleave unlocked, then I switched back to Bash when the clobber rune unlocked for Bash, but quickly switched back to Cleave for the AoE. Then, when Seismic Slam unlocked, I switched to BACK to Bash yet again, and wasn't dealing MASSIVE amounts of damage to everything in the beta. When you finally get Onslaught the damage from Bash is pretty insane. I was two 16.2 Mighty Sickles and Onslaught just slaughtered everything in my barbs path. Bash kept Fury up constantly, and whenever a crowd showed up (like those summoner skellies and their minnions, or the carrion bat packs) I'd just Seismic Slam them back to Hell.
Bash does 150% weapon dmg, runed to Onslaught it adds 2 more hits at 20% each, so Onslaught is effectively 190% wpn damage. Seismic Slam is 155% weapon damage and has some knockback and is AoE. I had absoluteley no problems with my Barbarian using Bash, Seismic Slam, Ground Stomp, and Leap. With all my builds I have 1 skill for single targets, 1 skill for AoE, one skill for defense, one for movement (if available) and the rest are just whatever I feel best complements the other 4. I just absolutely loved my Barbian. Leaping into groups of Unburried, (there's a spot in Catherdral 4 where 3 always come down these steps) even the champion packs with that big golden one as their leader, ground stomping, and onslaughting/Seismic Slamming them all to pieces before they can recover from the stun was the higlight of the Open Beta for me. I didn't think I'd come to like the Barb more than my Wizard, and I still like the Wizard lots, but my Barb was very much stronger than my Wizard in dmg output, survivability, and movement. I got both of them to around 60 DPS, but when my Wizard hit 60 DPS she was always running out of Arcane Power extremely quickly.
Frenzy will be sick in later game once you get Smite rune. Couple that with Wrath of Berserker Thrive on Chaos rune(or insanity rune), weapons master passive, a pair of mighty weapons(duel wield grants +15%AS and 3 fury per attack) and your looking at 215% attack speed with a 20% chance to stun. It will own bosses, theoretically of course.