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  1. #101
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    Re: The PvP Thread

    Just wondering, with the talk of "building a Tier 1 character" etcetera, is there a guide/list with these builds and what tiers they are considered? I vaguely remember seeing such information once, but I think it was in regards to some other discussion, and can't seem to find it at the time.

    I was originally going to ask, what does it take to make viable PvP character, such as damage/life targets? But it seems you already have most builds mapped out as "This is where to start, move up with wealth/skill." I just can't seem to find that info.

  2. #102
    IncGamers Member nulio's Avatar
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    Re: The PvP Thread

    We had a brief discussion about tier1 builds in the page 5 of this thread. There's probably more info out there, but I think the shared opinions here is good start.

    Damage and life targets will vary a bit. So it's not easy to answer.

    There are some nice guides in the PvP forum, and some not so nice ones. I guess we can try to link some here to help new PvPers.


    If you are thinking in some specific(s) build(s) just let us know and I'm sure we'll share some opinions here.

  3. #103
    IncGamers Member NagisaFurukawa's Avatar
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    Re: The PvP Thread

    Tiers are pretty arbitrary, so I doubt there's a list that would be universally accepted. There's major discrepancy caused by gear/skill, e.g. (1) nulio amazon is much higher tier than average bowazon because of broken gear, or (2) paladin would be tier 1 if anyone aside from froz-sama could actually play it at a high level.

    My personal opinion is that strongest builds are things like bonemancer, trapper, wind druid, and fire sorceress. They all do very high damage while being pretty easy to play and having very few problematic matchups. After those, builds start getting weaker based upon difficulty or occasional major matchup issues more than damage. BvC, ghost, bowazon, and [generic paladin] type stuff probably fit comfortably into second tier, and lesser played stuff such as poisonmancer, fire druid, lightning amazon, other sorceress types, kicksin, etc. come after that. It's all pretty silly though, since low tier build can have high success against certain high tier build.

    There's no specific damage/life targets unless you are extremely serious about having enough hit points to tank x number of attacks or prevent hit recovery from y attacking class. I doubt anyone outside the nulio/Fabian tandem actually cares enough to plan that out, but who knows. Just try to find what you consider to be a good balance between the two based upon common sense as well as what you find comfortable after playing for a while. For example, my bowazon swapped 100 dexterity for 100 vitality at some point to increase her life from 1200 to 1700 at the cost of 10% damage. Moving another 100 stat points cuts damage off even further, while providing less relative % life, so it wasn't worth it to me, but other players have found it quite nice at the same time. Personal perspective, etc.

  4. #104
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    Re: The PvP Thread

    @Nulio;
    I'll be sure to read the discussion on p.5, thanks! Also, I'll start browsing the PvP Forum, and get familiar with as much as I can.

    As far as something specific, for some reason, a Guided Arrow Enchant Sorc seemed like a decent start to me. Auto-hit main attack, prebuff damage, possibility of ES, and good mobility. But, ~2k Enchant just might not cut it? But, still seems like it would be a fun build to me.

    @Nagisa;
    I figured as much, with different wealth and player skill factoring in more than the build itself. As far as damage/life targets, I was thinking because I don't know what type of Absorb is typically "standard" that, for example, if you are playing a Fire damage based build, you need to do at least 12k LCS in order to be competitive. Maybe a Cold build only needs to do 2k LCS, because less standard Cold Absorb gears, or whatnot.

    Anyways, I'll check around in the PvP forum, and start reading up. Thanks!

  5. #105
    IncGamers Member NagisaFurukawa's Avatar
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    Re: The PvP Thread

    GA even with semi-prebuffed Enchant will deal ~ 150 damage after PvP penalty and max resist, which will make for some pretty slow killing between the crappy attack speed and highly accessible semi-hard counter (minions). My assassin uses GA with Venom pretty often, and it's only effective when people are skimping on resists and don't have access to minions. (She can kill stuff that can't catch her, but it's just a really, really extended fight.) A bit of OW thrown in there does wonders, but it's still not very fast by any stretch. Not saying you can't try it, of course.

    Absorb isn't something people put on unless they are really struggling for the most part. Cold Absorb is most common by far just because people like Raven Frost for its other nice things.

    12k is enough for Fire Ball. There's probably some sickos around here with almost twice as much, but it's not necessary. Blizzard needs a lot more than 2k though. (...like 4x more, at least.) That thing is really hard to hit, and Raven Frost is pretty much everywhere.

    PvP forum is a nice start, but beware battle.net and/or kind of outdated stuff. If you find something nice, smart guys here like froz/Gripp/max/etc. can probably help tune things to your wealth/needs though. (We can help with providing items as well.)

  6. #106
    IncGamers Member Gripphon's Avatar
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    Re: The PvP Thread

    As for absorb, Ravenfrosts are pretty much everywhere. Wisp Projector is just fantastic ring to use sometimes with oak minion charges and lite absorb. Very handy against trappers and javazons. Don't know does anyone use anything to absorb fire.
    So, pretty much only Raven and Wisp are common absorb items, other are rarely used and very situational.

  7. #107
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: The PvP Thread

    I like Level 18 or less duels.

  8. #108
    IncGamers Member frozzzen's Avatar
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    Re: The PvP Thread

    The lower you go with levels, less builds become viable for pvp and gear plays much bigger difference there. Even 30 is extremely restrictive in terms of what builds are even viable, and gear plays big role, much bigger than in high level. Even if you don't need high runes for LLD, I'd say gear is much harder to get and building good character isn't easy at all.

  9. #109
    IncGamers Member Delsy's Avatar
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    Re: The PvP Thread

    Considering the debate about resistances and absorbs, I would like to provide some food for thought by listing resists and absorbs as they are used within GM rules used by Polish community. They usually make very balanced rules.

    Here they are:

    1. maximum of 85% max res or 80% max + 20% absorb,
    2. allowed 90% max fire res,
    3. two Ravens are allowed, if stack cold res is 80 and less (80 over 75 in hell, i. e. 255 total and less),
    4. Thundergod's Vigor is allowed.

    If you were interested, I can post their complete GM rules. They are more detailed though, so if you want to keep the rules as simple as possible, it probably won't be any good.

  10. #110
    IncGamers Member nulio's Avatar
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    Re: The PvP Thread

    I'd love to see their complete GM rules.

    My thoughts: 80%max + 20% sorb is basically 88% after first hit, I'd say 90%max or 80%max+20% absorb looks more coherent (even if in the first it is basically 84%, considering the life pools of most of the characters, the first hit isn't huge - exception blizzard).
    Thundergod's being allowed doesn't shock me in the 85% max res or 80%max+20% absorb scenarios (from quick math is basically having near 90% versus a trapper) but it would in a 90% max lite res scenario, so I guess that's why they decided for 85% max res (90% for fire). (this makes me think that their rules were smartly crafted!)

    How do they control poison damage? Since there's no sorb, 85%max res seems low depending on the limits on PLR (and since Hell already has +100PLR...).

    About the dual Ravens, I'm divided. But it seems a good compromise to limit one CM point builds but not full CM points builds. It does make Hurricane completely lolish.

    Overall it's very very similar to what I was thinking.

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