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  1. #1
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    Dual-wield is superior over 2 handers/weapon shield wielding.

    I really hope that two-hand weapons have at least double the physical dmg from their counterpart, the one-handed, which doesn't seem be the case, judging from the beta and the diablo3.com website on where the physical dmg of the weapons is posted.
    The reasons are as follows:

    a) +% bonus to attack speed greatly increases dual-wield attack bonus, that it does 1 handers.
    Lets take an example: Say you equip a two-hand weapon with 1.0 attack speed (1 hit per second). A lvl 60 character can easily have a +50% increased attack speed if not more. So what does that give ? 1.5 hits per second, 3 hits in 2 secs, or 0.5 attack speed, if you want it in number value.
    A two 1.50 attack speed weapons, will automatically boost attack speed by additional 15% ( a fixed bonus when we dual-wield) so we have +0.225 attack speed just from the dual-wield. If we apply 50% attack speed (on the two 1.50 attack speed weapons) we get +0.75 attack speed, add on the the 0.225 from the dual-wield, we end with a total of 0.975 increase in attack speed.
    So in conclusion, a two-hand weapon will give as a poor 0.5 attack speed increase (with descent, 50% ias on lvl 60) where the two 1.50 attack speed weapons will give us merely double the amount (0.97).

    b) Now that we covered the efficiency of dual-wield when it comes applying +% increased attack speed, it is logical to assume that spirit regeneration will be doubled right ? So lets throw in some numbers here as well. A barbarian using battle rage-into the fray runed version shout (critical hits have chance to generate 15 spirit) can easily get +15 spirit more while dual-wielding. +15 spirit per second is a huge difference my friends considering the fact that hits generate only 5-6 spirit per second.

    c) I am not completely sure about this, so maybe someone from the beta can confirm, but i am pretty confident that spells casting animation is linked to weapons attack speed. No need to explain any further here i think...


    d) The only advantage, such as it is, that two-handers have against dual-wielders is DoT (damage over time) based spells (earthquake, rend, blizzard, and couple of witch doctor's spells). This spells, when applied on monsters are based on the dps calculated on your character screen. I assume that dual-wield weapons might have a bit more dps over two-handers but the sheer ammount of spirit regeneration you get (atleast double) will more than make up for it when you start throwing those hammers of the ancients and seismic slams.



  2. #2
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    Re: Dual-wield is superior over 2 handers/weapon shield wielding.

    I don't think that's how it works. Each weapon attacks independently once the other weapon is finished attacking and the boost is a simple .15 attacks per second added on to each weapon. For example, if you have a two swords that attack 1 time per second, it will take 2 seconds to attack with both swords, they don't fire off at the same time. I think both are pretty balanced the way they are.

    With a big two hander you can usually deal the same damage per second, plus you can better front load damage on enemies (being able to kill them in one shot as opposed to two hits) and you also get increased range from melee attacks. The advantage to dual wielding is of course increased resource generation.



  3. #3
    IncGamers Member starrise's Avatar
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    Re: Dual-wield is superior over 2 handers/weapon shield wielding.

    Don't forget there are instant cast abilities as well (typically cooldown oriented spells). I don't fully grasp how attack speed mechanics interact with cooldowns (if they do at all, or even if there is a global-type cooldown), but it seems that, say, Wave of Force does damage the instant you press the button regardless of attack speed. For this spell, which is better? It is clear that chunky slow weapons are much, much better with this ability.

    Now the decision isn't so generally clear...

    P.S. Yes, I understand that Wave of Force is partly meant to be a crowd-control ability. It is also a heavy damage ability with a cooldown. This means that it can also be useful to kill a powerful enemy at relatively low health that is threatening to run away and kill you from range. Or to completely wipe a group of weak mobs that is crowding you in, or to outright kill a swarm of ankle-biters that are trivial alone, but deadly in packs.



  4. #4
    IncGamers Member Apocalypse's Avatar
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    Re: Dual-wield is superior over 2 handers/weapon shield wielding.

    this does not really get into dual-weild vs sword and board. i have wondered how the different weapons will balance against each other. to me it now seems like the game is built for dual-weilding which i am not sure if its good or bad. the IAS is very nice for characters using resource gen. 1 handed and shield vs dual weild might be closer, more damage vs more defense. there at least seems to be a real trade off with these two while 2 handers are just slower dps options? my throw barb was built around 2 handed mighty weapons though since it lacks a fury gen outside of the shouts and such



  5. #5
    IncGamers Member DexA's Avatar
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    Re: Dual-wield is superior over 2 handers/weapon shield wielding.

    There are skills for every class which favour DW or 2H, so its more about your choice of skills, which is about your personal preference. I'm sure blizzard will keep it balanced so we are not forced to pick one because its better in every way.



  6. #6
    IncGamers Member beingmused's Avatar
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    Re: Dual-wield is superior over 2 handers/weapon shield wielding.

    Here are the DPS numbers of the highest level vanilla weapons of each type, taken from d3db's scan of patch 16:

    one handed dam min (min) dam min (max) dam max (min) dam max (max) dps min dps max aps % of highest average dps
    axes 149 154 275 280 275.6 282.1 1.3 0.870679012 278.85
    ceremonial knives 71 74 288 291 251.3 255.5 1.4 0.788580247 253.4
    daggers 67 70 203 206 202.5 207 1.5 0.638888889 204.75
    fist weapons 104 107 242 245 242.2 246.4 1.4 0.760493827 244.3
    maces 186 191 344 349 318 324 1.2 1 321
    mighty weapons 150 154 277 281 277.6 282.8 1.30023 0.872839506 280.2
    spears 209 214 310 315 311.4 317.4 1.2 0.97962963 314.4
    swords 104 107 242 245 242.2 246.4 1.4 0.760493827 244.3
    wands 118 122 218 222 235.2 240.8 1.4 0.743209877 238
    2 handed
    diabos 333 341 616 624 522 530.8 1.100104 0.855301321 526.4
    mighty weapons 531 539 579 587 555 563 1 0.907186594 559
    polearms 562 570 680 688 590 597.6 0.950079 0.962939091 593.8
    staves 460 468 685 693 572.5 580.5 1 0.935385111 576.5
    axes 507 515 613 621 560 568 1 0.915243313 564
    maces 651 659 712 720 613.4 620.6 0.900073 1 617
    swords 374 382 556 564 511.5 520.3 1.1 0.838382211 515.9
    ranged
    bows 80 82 458 460 376.6 379.4 1.4 0.611343861 378
    crossbows 413 421 498 506 501.1 509.9 1.100108 0.821624235 505.5
    hand xbows 48 50 275 277 258.4 261.6 1.6 0.421527554 260



  7. #7
    IncGamers Member beingmused's Avatar
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    Re: Dual-wield is superior over 2 handers/weapon shield wielding.

    As you can see, 2-handers do almost double the DPS of one handed weapons. This wasn't the case before patch 16 - they greatly increased the difference in DPS (while increasing the DPS of all weapons). Either Blizzard is pushing almost every class towards two-handers, or procs have a much bigger role to play in end-game DPS (aside from efficiency, I cannot see a good reason aside from this why speedy weapons should be so heavily penalized in DPS). This also leads me to believe that procs are *not* based on a PPM mechanic, like others suspect.



  8. #8
    IncGamers Member Apocalypse's Avatar
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    Re: Dual-wield is superior over 2 handers/weapon shield wielding.

    omg if these numbers are accurate then xbows do far more damage than bows and that is the worst possible thing ever. i had a feeling bliz would make bows crap since they are pushing the xbow thing so hard



  9. #9
    IncGamers Member beingmused's Avatar
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    Re: Dual-wield is superior over 2 handers/weapon shield wielding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    omg if these numbers are accurate then xbows do far more damage than bows and that is the worst possible thing ever. i had a feeling bliz would make bows crap since they are pushing the xbow thing so hard
    I'm hoping that the bow minimum damage is a mistake somehow - no other weapon in the game comes even close to that gap between the min and max of the weapon's DPS, meaning that the bow would be a uniquely "swingy" weapon. That would make xbows strictly better by a long shot (except possibly legendary bows that have completely different damage ranges).



  10. #10
    IncGamers Member Apocalypse's Avatar
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    Re: Dual-wield is superior over 2 handers/weapon shield wielding.

    looking at the official site i also wonder if they are missing or more likely planning to add other level 60 bows. there are 3 lvl 60 xbows listed with the bow being about equal to the first one dps wise. maybe this just means they have not added all bows yet? as it stands now they are worthless next to xbows (i am only talking 2 handed here). at first i thought maybe it had really low min but a higher max damage but thats not even true. not only is the min super low but the max is lower also. if it stays this way i may not actually play a demon hunter since i really hate xbows. i pretty much refuse to use them in any game. i mean even looking at the uniques (i know not finalized) you would need a perfect roll on the windforce just to get slightly over a junk roll on the unique xbows. why even include bows if you are gonna make them so bad they are worthless? easier to just remove them if you dont want people using them


    end of rant..........for now



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